Tarne Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 http://news.sky.com/story/Teenage-girl-won-right-to-be-frozen-after-dying-from-cancer-10661147 I get it, I really do. I just don't understand why it had to go to the high Court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Divorce, parents being unable to agree... Same old same old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karellen Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 How scary though, imagine being reanimated in the future, and looking up into the face of our alien lizard overlords. Brave girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Won't happen - the way they cryo-freeze simply reduces her dna to mush. Entropy does a terrible thing to the human body once it looses the ability to maintain homeostasis, but what ice crystals do at -200 C is quite something. We've all seen those brittle flowers cryo-frozen and smashed with hammers - you rarely see what they look like when they are gently warmed up - mush. There is as much chance of bringing her back to sentient life as there is re-animating an urn of ashes - but there's always someone ready to take £30K off a willing customer - que sera sera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 This is so sad. I can understand the dream of never actually dying or feeling that you haven't really lost someone, but I truly don't believe that the science is there yet and goodness knows what they're playing with. What if it works, to a degree, and once warmed up the result is a decaying body and a dead brain? What then? What would be the ethics of disposing of a half revived body and brain? It's doubly tragic to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Yes. Preying on the hopes and fears of those who cannot accept mortality for what it is. There is an interesting conversation that comes to mind. What if it was possible to live forever? How would the way we live our lives change? Would we actually care about the future for ourselves more than we care about it "for future generations"? Or would we continue to pay lip service and live for today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 It'll never work. Impossible. And it's quite sad really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Won't happen - the way they cryo-freeze simply reduces her dna to mush. Entropy does a terrible thing to the human body once it looses the ability to maintain homeostasis, but what ice crystals do at -200 C is quite something. We've all seen those brittle flowers cryo-frozen and smashed with hammers - you rarely see what they look like when they are gently warmed up - mush. There is as much chance of bringing her back to sentient life as there is re-animating an urn of ashes - but there's always someone ready to take £30K off a willing customer - que sera sera. https://www.newscientist.com/article/2077140-mammal-brain-frozen-and-thawed-out-perfectly-for-first-time/ Not necessarily true, it seems, according to this item in New Scientist. As regards DNA, remember that sperm, eggs and embryos are routinely frozen and then thawed and successfully used. Clearly, it's a very long shot but unless you are a convinced religious believer, the best shot you have! Two things concern me. One is that in this case, the girl's mother had to rush around making arrangements between the hospital staff and the UK cryonics volunteers when she really ought to have been able to be there undisturbed for her daughter in her last hours. My most macabre fear would be that because the cryonics team apply cardio-pulmonary massage and restore a circulation as soon as possible after death is confirmed, is it possible that consciousness returns during the procedure, meaning very traumatic last moments for the patient? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarne Posted November 19, 2016 Author Share Posted November 19, 2016 I see the father was dead against it, but honestly, why drag your dying daughter through that, just let it happen, let her go into the eternal blackness with hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Not necessarily true, it seems, according to this item in New Scientist. It is possible maintain undifferentiated cells but it is a huge and mad leap of faith to allege this principle would similarly work with differentiated cells making up organs and their supporting networks. Completely irreversible changes happen in organs within a few minutes of death and freezing to -196°C will never change that. This is a desperately sad story but the shysters are just selling hope. I was clear that their spokesperson yesterday had maybe less knowledge than someone with GCSE biology but had a great well rehearsed sales patter which included the point that ova and sperm can be reversibly frozen so why not a whole body? She even alleged it would just be like awakening from an anaesthetic when "warmed up". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Not necessarily true, it seems, according to this item in New Scientist. It is possible maintain undifferentiated cells but it is a huge and mad leap of faith to allege this principle would similarly work with differentiated cells making up organs and their supporting networks. Completely irreversible changes happen in organs within a few minutes of death and freezing to -196°C will never change that. This is a desperately sad story but the shysters are just selling hope. I was clear that their spokesperson yesterday had maybe less knowledge than someone with GCSE biology but had a great well rehearsed sales patter which included the point that ova and sperm can be reversibly frozen so why not a whole body? She even alleged it would just be like awakening from an anaesthetic when "warmed up". I'm certainly not arguing that it is likely to succeed, but the hypothesis that enthusiasts for this rely on is that in the future, it will become possible to recover a person from their frozen body or brain. The New Scientist item seems to lend some credibility to this belief. It reports that a rabbit brain has been frozen after being perfused with 'antifreeze' and then thawed with the structures intact, including the connections between neurones. It is thought that our memories and personality are stored in these connections. The issue as far as resuscitating the rabbit is concerned is that the 'anti-freeze' that prevents ice-crystals destroying the structure of the brain is lethal for living tissue. The study mentions the possibility that nanotechnology might in future allow this to be addressed. Going off on my own into sci-fi land, I can imagine that if the frozen brain captures all that is the person in it's preserved intercellular connections, it might at some point in the future be possible to read this record out and download it into a new body, perhaps one cloned and grown for the purpose from the DNA of the individual concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrydandridge Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Scientists have done a good job in convincing people that their body is themselves and when it expires there is no survival of the consciousness, at the moment of bodily death the girl would have realized that it's not as she was lead to believe, she would soon come to terms with the knowledge that her body was just an avatar. Probably laughing at her ignorance in the matter now. But the truly sad thing here is that the atheist beliefs made her life experience so limited, thanks to the mind control we receive from the point of entry. If only she knew that you simply use the body to experience the more solid dimensions of the omniverse, how much better would her life experience had been without such an obvious fear of bodily death given to her by the atheist scientist, the atheist is in for a surprise, if you expect eternal blackness but would prefer immortality, you are in for a pleasant surprise. This world is truly mad and full of all kinds of deceptions and scams, it seems convincing people to reanimate soulless corpses is one of them. I blame the religions of the world for turning out so many atheist beliefs, they see the obvious contradictions of the churches and deflect to another false belief system, all by design... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 What happens when the cryonics company goes bust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 What happens when the cryonics company goes bust? This has already happened. 20 frozen bodies were thawed and buried as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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