Farage tastes some sweet irony

[woolley]

Interesting post, Quilp. Agree with the thrust of it although there are aspects I would demur from.

[pongo]

@Quilp - I see that your previous post is copied and pasted from this article. Do you agree with the original author where he writes:

 

And they didn't just do this out of spite: they explicitly wanted to empower the multinational conglomerates at the expense of independent domestic producers. Last year's list of demands for the Greek economy from the 'troika' (the EU, European Central Bank and the IMF) had little to do with preventing corruption and furthering economic opportunity. They were mostly about breaking the power of the local publishing industry, journalists, olive oil makers, mom and pop retailers and so on. The goal was to make way for outside corporations and overthrow the internal political and social culture.

? That seems completely spurious to me. Could you offer any evidence to support what the original author is saying? It seems like empty polemic

[woolley]

That is an odd paragraph. Whether you can ride the globalisation roller coaster tends to be a matter of scale rather than nationality. If your nationality is "extemely rich" you are OK.

[quilp]

@pongo...

 

Do you believe that 'elites' and elitism exist? Are they "imaginary", as rmanx chooses to describe it? Is there not a privileged few who can command influence and power on many levels? They come in all shapes and sizes, political and religious persuasion: some lean to the left, some to the right.

 

If you need more hair-splitting evidence, go ogle.

[pongo]

Do you believe that 'elites' and elitism exist?

Conceptually and in specific contexts, yes of course. But the contemporary notion of a singular global elite is spurious, conspiracy-based nonsense - also deeply divisive, reactionary and dishonest. It's as stupid as any of the old Marxist "them and us" class definitions - eg proletariat vs bourgeoisie.

 

If you need more hair-splitting evidence, go ogle.

But you haven't actually provided any evidence. Your previous post is confusingly not in your own voice. It seems fair to ask whether you agree with its author on specifics.

[Tarne]

I find it hilarious how the left keep crying nazis when all I'm hearing is "yeah, we should probably think about maybe stopping some immigration and have a bit of protectionism on the ol' markets there so that we aren't all put out of business and work by cheap labour"

 

But it seems some are hearing

 

"PURGE THE INFIDELS WASH AWAY THEIR UNCLEAN"

 

There's no massive sudden burst of naziism, it's just people wanting a better life.

[woolley]

It's the way they have stifled dissent and debate for the last half century. Now that the clamour has become deafening they have no response other than to ramp up the Nazi alerts. It is totally risible.

[quilp]

 

Do you believe that 'elites' and elitism exist?

Conceptually and in specific contexts, yes of course. But the contemporary notion of a singular global elite is spurious, conspiracy-based nonsense - also deeply divisive, reactionary and dishonest. It's as stupid as any of the old Marxist "them and us" class definitions - eg proletariat vs bourgeoisie.

 

If you need more hair-splitting evidence, go ogle.

But you haven't actually provided any evidence. Your previous post is confusingly not in your own voice. It seems fair to ask whether you agree with its author on specifics.

I agree there's no singular elite entity, to say so is nonsense. A lot of powerful vested interest though, which could be worse?

 

I agree with the thrust of that author. Copy and paste being my lazy option.

 

But I certainly don't see some great catastrophe looming with the rise of the right. As with Brexit, it will be wait and see.

 

I do wonder what sort of examples of change, good or bad, the europhiles envisage. Seems like a gloomy and cynical standpoint from where I'm sitting.

[rmanx]

@pongo...

 

Do you believe that 'elites' and elitism exist? Are they "imaginary", as rmanx chooses to describe it?

 

I didn't suggest that "elites" are imaginary.

 

I just don't think they are some shadowy cabal, plotting the downfall of the common man like some sort of bond villain collective.

[rmanx]

I find it hilarious how the left keep crying nazis when all I'm hearing is "yeah, we should probably think about maybe stopping some immigration and have a bit of protectionism on the ol' markets there so that we aren't all put out of business and work by cheap labour"

 

But it seems some are hearing

 

"PURGE THE INFIDELS WASH AWAY THEIR UNCLEAN"

 

There's no massive sudden burst of naziism, it's just people wanting a better life.

 

You're not hearing it because you don't want to.

 

The parallels between the rise of the far right in 20s German and now are stark and scary.

 

But don't worry if its a bit confusing for you Tarne. A brown coat will be along to explain it to you shortly.

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1931480/hundreds-of-racist-thugs-gave-nazi-salutes-at-a-white-supremacist-rally-in-a-tiny-cambridgeshire-village/

 

This is going to become more common as extreme right groups become more emboldened and ballsy.

 

Does that event look like ""yeah, we should probably think about maybe stopping some immigration and have a bit of protectionism on the ol' markets there so that we aren't all put out of business and work by cheap labour" Tarne?

[woolley]

So there are extremists. What's new? Always have been, always will be. On all sides.

[rmanx]

So there are extremists. What's new? Always have been, always will be. On all sides.

 

Except the far right extremists are growing in strength and bravery.

 

But keep ignoring it.

[quilp]

 

@pongo...

 

Do you believe that 'elites' and elitism exist? Are they "imaginary", as rmanx chooses to describe it?

I didn't suggest that "elites" are imaginary.

 

I just don't think they are some shadowy cabal, plotting the downfall of the common man like some sort of bond villain collective.

Neither do I. And just for the record, it was you who said, "You and Quilp with your imaginary elites..." in an earlier post.

[woolley]

 

So there are extremists. What's new? Always have been, always will be. On all sides.

 

Except the far right extremists are growing in strength and bravery.

 

But keep ignoring it.

 

Hmmmm. Not blown up a bus or a tube train or a theatre or an airport yet though, have they?

[quilp]

 

So there are extremists. What's new? Always have been, always will be. On all sides.

Except the far right extremists are growing in strength and bravery.

 

But keep ignoring it.

Keep ignoring it? Hard to ignore when there's constantly a raised threat level. You seem to be conveniently ignoring the reason for it and it isn't (so far) right-wing Fascism. Any consequence of the rise of nationalism has yet to be seen.