quilp Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Lol. Yes, I thought particularly of you, Corporal. We are all guilty of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 I found the Grauniad piece quite interesting. It's very obvious that The Donald played up to the "Jesse Ventura" effect just as much as he could. And it worked. Sure it doesn't say anything good about the US electorate however Clinton won the popular vote so some hope there I suppose. Unlike the Brexit voters.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 "Why is everything so beastly? Why can't everyone just be nice to each other." (BBC editorial line). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 "Why is everything so beastly? Why can't everyone just be nice to each other." (BBC editorial line). And your point is...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 It's not worth getting bogged down in a slanging match about Trump. Barring his demise between now and 20th January, he's going to be POTUS. But the Guardian piece made a very good general point. 'Political correctness' has been used to label all sorts of progressive policies and changes, many of them actually very positive. Ill educated, disaffected people who perceive themselves as marginalised and having little stake in 'the establishment' have proved incredibly malleable and susceptible to this technique. The 'new right' is emerging triumphant. If we see Marine LePen elected president of France next Spring, we will indeed see a new order in the West, probably in an unholy alliance with Russia. We are in for a very unpleasant new era, caused by the collapse of the post-war liberal consensus. I fear for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarne Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 The 'new right' is emerging triumphant. If we see Marine LePen elected president of France next Spring, we will indeed see a new order in the West, probably in an unholy alliance with Russia. We are in for a very unpleasant new era, caused by the collapse of the post-war liberal consensus. I fear for the future. Can you blame France? The French are on the run in many parts, the menace corrupting everything, turning the lands into havens for their religion. Their borders are porous. Where they can't breed, they attack, where they can't attack, they riot. The secular French don't know what to do, they need a strong leader who can repulse the menace. That's why some are turning to be Le Pen. I still don't see the French having enough of a backbone to elect her, but it's why they've gained in popularity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 I fear for the future. What do you envisage? What are your fears? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 The 'new right' is emerging triumphant. If we see Marine LePen elected president of France next Spring, we will indeed see a new order in the West, probably in an unholy alliance with Russia. We are in for a very unpleasant new era, caused by the collapse of the post-war liberal consensus. I fear for the future. Can you blame France? The French are on the run in many parts, the menace corrupting everything, turning the lands into havens for their religion. Their borders are porous. Where they can't breed, they attack, where they can't attack, they riot. The secular French don't know what to do, they need a strong leader who can repulse the menace. That's why some are turning to be Le Pen. I still don't see the French having enough of a backbone to elect her, but it's why they've gained in popularity. Well, it hasn't transpired yet, so the question doesn't arise. But no, I wouldn't blame the people as such. I think blame would go to the factors that have created the preconditions for fascism. Failure to manage immigration and to integrate the immigrant communities would almost certainly be one of those factors. The fragmented nature of French politics would be another, with left and centrist parties unable to support common cause against the fascist. Left voters have been willing in the past to vote tactically for the right in order to shut the door on the fascists, but I am not sure that would be the case next time with the right choosing a candidate who has wrapped himself in some of the fascists clothes. I fear for the future. What do you envisage? What are your fears? I think some of the world's leading democracies will become more deeply polarised societies than they are at present. Rights for minorities will be swept away, Progress towards social inclusion will be abandoned. Internationalism will be replaced with insularity and xenophobia. Rational analysis will form no part of popular politics, replaced by sloganeering and jingoism. We will look back on a golden age when we could travel, work and live freely on our continent. Ultimately, I fear the climate for war will have been created, with a voluble idiot at the helm of the West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 What a load of politically incorrect guff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmanx Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 I felt sad on Remembrance Sunday. We remember those who died to keep fascism and the extreme right from taking over, and now fascism and extreme right wing views are becoming acceptable again. A sad time to be alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 I felt sad on Remembrance Sunday. We remember those who died to keep fascism and the extreme right from taking over, and now fascism and extreme right wing views are becoming acceptable again. A sad time to be alive. Don't kid yourself. I think what the brave fought for in the war has been hijacked and subject to a lot of revisionism by liberals in the intervening years. I certainly don't think they fought to see the Europe we have today. Frankly, some of the people I knew in my young years who fought in the war, including relatives who were among the first on the beaches on D-Day, Far East pows etc. would be totally appalled at what has happened and would be first in the queue to tear it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmanx Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 ...liberals... Yawn...the ills of the world are not the blame of people who are not as right wing as you (or the extreme right). Edited for a missing word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 ...liberals... Yawn...the ills of the world are not the blame of people who as right wing as you (or the extreme right). Gibberish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paswt Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 I felt sad on Remembrance Sunday. We remember those who died to keep fascism and the extreme right from taking over, and now fascism and extreme right wing views are becoming acceptable again. A sad time to be alive. Perhaps it's a sad time for you to be alive, personally I think it beats the alternative . On remembrance Sunday I remember 'the lions led by donkeys' and how those who suffered and are still suffering have to depend on 'charity'. Just saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkle Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 The 'new right' is emerging triumphant. If we see Marine LePen elected president of France next Spring, we will indeed see a new order in the West, probably in an unholy alliance with Russia. We are in for a very unpleasant new era, caused by the collapse of the post-war liberal consensus. I fear for the future. Can you blame France? The French are on the run in many parts, the menace corrupting everything, turning the lands into havens for their religion. Their borders are porous. Where they can't breed, they attack, where they can't attack, they riot. The secular French don't know what to do, they need a strong leader who can repulse the menace. That's why some are turning to be Le Pen. I still don't see the French having enough of a backbone to elect her, but it's why they've gained in popularity. Well, it hasn't transpired yet, so the question doesn't arise. But no, I wouldn't blame the people as such. I think blame would go to the factors that have created the preconditions for fascism. Failure to manage immigration and to integrate the immigrant communities would almost certainly be one of those factors. The fragmented nature of French politics would be another, with left and centrist parties unable to support common cause against the fascist. Left voters have been willing in the past to vote tactically for the right in order to shut the door on the fascists, but I am not sure that would be the case next time with the right choosing a candidate who has wrapped himself in some of the fascists clothes. I fear for the future. What do you envisage? What are your fears? I think some of the world's leading democracies will become more deeply polarised societies than they are at present. Rights for minorities will be swept away, Progress towards social inclusion will be abandoned. Internationalism will be replaced with insularity and xenophobia. Rational analysis will form no part of popular politics, replaced by sloganeering and jingoism. We will look back on a golden age when we could travel, work and live freely on our continent. Ultimately, I fear the climate for war will have been created, with a voluble idiot at the helm of the West. whats the problem?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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