b4mbi Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, dilligaf said: Seriously though, PGW's madcap ideas and yours are not that different. Both mental. Proposing a deepwater berth for the isle of man is as mental as proposing the earth is flat?? That's a bit of a stretch. Look, if the figures don't work, they don't work and I'd be happy to accept that, but it would be 'mental' not to look in detail at and seriously assess the economics of a port redevelopment, and the opportunities it could bring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 15 minutes ago, b4mbi said: Look, if the figures don't work, they don't work and I'd be happy to accept that, but it would be 'mental' not to look in detail at and seriously assess the economics of a port redevelopment, and the opportunities it could bring. So put a £number on the "opportunities" then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 7 hours ago, finlo said: Of course it is, if it wasn't how would plane's land? Ronaldsways runway is like a camels back !! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b4mbi Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 7 hours ago, P.K. said: So put a £number on the "opportunities" then. That's what the Deloitte report was commissioned for with respect to cruise and that's not been released yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 8 hours ago, b4mbi said: Proposing a deepwater berth for the isle of man is as mental as proposing the earth is flat?? That's a bit of a stretch. Look, if the figures don't work, they don't work and I'd be happy to accept that, but it would be 'mental' not to look in detail at and seriously assess the economics of a port redevelopment, and the opportunities it could bring. All round the world countries are expanding the size and depth of their ports. Ships are getting bigger. In fact one reason why there are fewer shipbrokers in say London is because when it comes to chartering then one ship can do the work of several. In my day we chartered maybe 6 ships of 20,000 tons to shift 120,000 tons of cargo now one ship can do the lot and more besides. For a long time ships, especially ships for charter and dry bulk cargo, had been built long and narrow as a proviso that they might have had to transit the Panama Canal. This was a restriction. However, until recently not many ships were using the canal and so now its locks have been widened to take ships of broader beam and greater tonnage. Douglas harbour is in much the same position. It is of the past. It is hard to get ships on the market that will fit. The tonnage chartered in by the Steampacket is old and small as that is all that is left over from earlier times. The modern tonnage is too big for Douglas so the Steampacket as in the case of "the Ben" had an adapted design constructed. If you want to charter in or replace the Steampacket or enable other service providers to call then you need to be like the rest of the world, follow the trend and adapt your harbour to fit the ships. I post a link. https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjp89yC5ODXAhXJLFAKHTHpDF4QFgg_MAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fworldmaritimenews.com%2Farchives%2F195764%2Fexpanded-panama-canal-opens-its-locks%2F&usg=AOvVaw3ktb1WZXbForMP6RC_RIta 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craggy_steve Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 9 hours ago, b4mbi said: @craggy It's a port redevelopment that is being proposed, incorporating a deep water berth that can take cruise ships and potentially bigger ro-pax vessels. Then that's what needs to be sold to the public, clearly. I can believe a case for redeveloping / modernising Douglas port, but the cruise business case is a questionable add-on - questionable in both ROI and desirability. As a port modernisation of Douglas will likely also largely kill freight in Ramsey the business case needs to include the economic impacts to the North. The biggest benefit here is clearly the ability to handle a wider range of bigger ro-pax & freight vessels, eliminating dependency on specially commissioned smaller vessels. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) IOMG has been so preoccupied with IOMSPCo and the UA in recent years that they have been blind to the real elephant. Edited November 28, 2017 by Andy Onchan Typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homarus Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) Looking at how this topic from the beginning it seems that Governments well paid and taxpayer insulated dreamers along with the well connectedmovers and shakers behind the scenes are determined to progress this fairy tale come hell or high water . First they show the stupid plebs a pretty picture with a proposed berth opposite the tower of refuge ,they when pointed out that they would have to dynamite half the existing pier structures and bay to make it work ,they proclaim ! "" Ah but the cruise liner berth was never meant for there ,it's going to be a pontoon structure outside the existing breakwater "". Again when pointed out that the new proposed location for the pontoon structure is smack in the middle of the tidal flow and prevailing winds and is dangerous they say! "" Ah but it's not going to be a pontoon structure but permanent "" When the feedback from the public remains negative pointing out that if it's such a winner that they should not need any taxpayer funding ,they then then change tack again ! "" Ah but it's not just a cruise liner berth but a proposed full port redevelopment "" They are like scum sucking bottom feeding shape shifting barnacles this lot , and a symptom of all that has been wrong and wasteful with this Island over decades, but they're hanging on for dear life because they can almost taste the money, and as per time honored proven model will be long gone by the time the shit hits the fan . Say it again ,in proposed location it's a dangerous plan . P.S. I've included the smiley as I don't want to seem too negative! Edited November 28, 2017 by homarus 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Yes, yes, very good, but that's the sort of thing the naysayers said about the Port Erin Breakwater all those years ago. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 11 hours ago, Max Power said: i'm in two minds about this. On one hand it could bring a tourism boost and better ferry options, on the other, it could end up being badly managed and be a huge white elephant. bet on the latter...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 11 hours ago, b4mbi said: Here's a figure for you. How about £15m per annum ebitda for your beloved iomspc on average since 2012. Where does that money go? Not back into the local economy, it goes to pay interest on their debt. Why else would they propose an agreement out to 2040's? Because they can't afford to invest in new tonnage without it. If you're happy with the way things are, then you're one of those rare people that don't complain about ferry prices and are happy that the majority of their profit goes to Portugal rather than stays on the Island. @craggy It's a port redevelopment that is being proposed, incorporating a deep water berth that can take cruise ships and potentially bigger ro-pax vessels. do you think IOMSP will agree without having full control....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 On 26/11/2017 at 12:48 PM, gettafa said: There may well be something in all this. Anyway: The Positive Action Group are doing a presentation at the Manx Legion tomorrow night. Did anyone go? I believe it was very informative and gave a very interesting perspective on the Cruise Ship Industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 25 minutes ago, woody2 said: do you think IOMSP will agree without having full control....... What has IOMSPCo got to do with it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 9 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: What has IOMSPCo got to do with it? do you think they would want other companies operating from the new pier? according to b4mbi it would make "cheaper ferry"...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 34 minutes ago, gettafa said: Did anyone go? I believe it was very informative and gave a very interesting perspective on the Cruise Ship Industry. I was going to but couldn’t make it in the end. It wouldn’t have swayed my opinion that it’s all a massive waste of money I dont think though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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