cheeky boy Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 What about Conister rock? ETA Cheekyboy, it's too cold here for cycle lanes and there are too many cars on the road. I have stopped road walking because the car fumes were too much for me and...as an ex-smoker I don't need any more poison in my lungs (lol, did you know I stopped smoking?) "Too cold for cycle lanes?" I'm failing to understand your point 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeky boy Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Orkney got £4 million into the local economy from cruise passengers With a deepwater ship berth costing in the hundreds of millions I cannot see any way of repaying the cost before the thing wears out To give you an example of a cheaper tourism investment look at Majorca. They had funds available and were considering building yet another marina, instead they invested in making the islands roads cycle friendly by widening some of the main routes and putting a 1.5 meter wide cycleway on one side The result was a massive uptake in cycle holidays in the spring & autumn when the weather was cool enough I was there last April and they had 25,000 cyclists a week going through the place, using hotels, cafes, bike hire shops, the airlines & ferries and spending considerably more than a tea & scone day tripper A huge and ongoing return for a modest investment http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-30794701 The estimated economic benefit to Orkney was £7m in 2016, the total cost of their berth was £29m (original in 2002 and then extension in 2013) The deep water berth will not cost "hundreds of millions" and its expected lifespan is 100 years. The £50m includes an estimate for shore-side infrastructure modifications, and is only an estimate based on feasibility study designs, not the final design. As stated, the business case detailing ownership/funding/revenues has to stack up, and this is the next step. If the project gets the go-ahead based on a sound business case, and for whatever reason the assumptions in the business case do not materialise over the longer term, there is still the option to sell the asset, as clearly it is moveable and it has 100 year design life. This also mitigates the financial risk. Can we just stand back for a second an take in what is being proposed here A 170 meter linkspan to a floating pontoon anchored on the outside of the current breakwater, this structure will then have ships from 20,000 to 60,000 tons berthed alongside If you consider the structure in isolation it may make sense, but when you put in in the context of the location it is a ludicrous proposal Anyone unfamiliar with conditions in that area should take a drive to the breakwater and park above the old coastguard stores On the surface it holds the biggest swells between here & Langness, the reasons being that there is a large reef which rises up in line with the lighthouse and pushes up the sea being driven toward it by the prevailing wind. These conditions are amplified when the tide ebbs and runs into the oncoming swell There is a tidal range of up to 10 meters and swells there frequently make 7 metres, The tidal flow exceeds 6 knots on a spring Oil & gas rig technology could be used to place a structure in this area with no problems, trying to berth a ship alongside it in adverse conditions would be a prospect only the skipper of the Costa Concordia would contemplate. There is also the scenario of berthing alongside it in calm conditions the morning and discharging the passengers then having to leave the berth when the wind gets up and having the passengers re-embark by ships boat back in the bay All of must have seen footage of rig support vessels trying to supply oil rigs in open water, a highly dangerous task. My background is rooted in the Manx tourist industry, my great grandparents came here and bought a hotel on the prom over 100 years ago, my grandparents, parents and parents in-law all had hotels. My own restaurants derived around 30% of their turnover from visitors I have a lot of faith in the Island as a tourist destination, but this scheme, in this location is ill advised and will make us a laughing stock 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) Well ! Mr/Mrs/Miss IOMSA has already posted on here maybe he and Mark Robertshaw can come on and shoot down all the negative posters , self included? I thought that Notwell usually comes onto every thread and shoots down every negative poster. Edited January 24, 2017 by 2112 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Well ! Mr/Mrs/Miss IOMSA has already posted on here maybe he and Mark Robertshaw can come on and shoot down all the negative posters , self included? Why would they want to do that when they can just bamboozle the people who hold the purse strings instead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Well ! Mr/Mrs/Miss IOMSA has already posted on here maybe he and Mark Robertshaw can come on and shoot down all the negative posters , self included? I thought that Notwell usually comes onto every thread and shoots down every negative poster. Not at all. But every post you put on tends to be negative so I guess that will be your impression because I pull you for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 could tarmac over the rail and tramway, save a few quid and tax the bikealists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Orkney got £4 million into the local economy from cruise passengers With a deepwater ship berth costing in the hundreds of millions I cannot see any way of repaying the cost before the thing wears out To give you an example of a cheaper tourism investment look at Majorca. They had funds available and were considering building yet another marina, instead they invested in making the islands roads cycle friendly by widening some of the main routes and putting a 1.5 meter wide cycleway on one side The result was a massive uptake in cycle holidays in the spring & autumn when the weather was cool enough I was there last April and they had 25,000 cyclists a week going through the place, using hotels, cafes, bike hire shops, the airlines & ferries and spending considerably more than a tea & scone day tripper A huge and ongoing return for a modest investment http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-30794701 The estimated economic benefit to Orkney was £7m in 2016, the total cost of their berth was £29m (original in 2002 and then extension in 2013) The deep water berth will not cost "hundreds of millions" and its expected lifespan is 100 years. The £50m includes an estimate for shore-side infrastructure modifications, and is only an estimate based on feasibility study designs, not the final design. As stated, the business case detailing ownership/funding/revenues has to stack up, and this is the next step. If the project gets the go-ahead based on a sound business case, and for whatever reason the assumptions in the business case do not materialise over the longer term, there is still the option to sell the asset, as clearly it is moveable and it has 100 year design life. This also mitigates the financial risk. Can we just stand back for a second an take in what is being proposed here A 170 meter linkspan to a floating pontoon anchored on the outside of the current breakwater, this structure will then have ships from 20,000 to 60,000 tons berthed alongside If you consider the structure in isolation it may make sense, but when you put in in the context of the location it is a ludicrous proposal Anyone unfamiliar with conditions in that area should take a drive to the breakwater and park above the old coastguard stores On the surface it holds the biggest swells between here & Langness, the reasons being that there is a large reef which rises up in line with the lighthouse and pushes up the sea being driven toward it by the prevailing wind. These conditions are amplified when the tide ebbs and runs into the oncoming swell There is a tidal range of up to 10 meters and swells there frequently make 7 metres, The tidal flow exceeds 6 knots on a spring Oil & gas rig technology could be used to place a structure in this area with no problems, trying to berth a ship alongside it in adverse conditions would be a prospect only the skipper of the Costa Concordia would contemplate. There is also the scenario of berthing alongside it in calm conditions the morning and discharging the passengers then having to leave the berth when the wind gets up and having the passengers re-embark by ships boat back in the bay All of must have seen footage of rig support vessels trying to supply oil rigs in open water, a highly dangerous task. My background is rooted in the Manx tourist industry, my great grandparents came here and bought a hotel on the prom over 100 years ago, my grandparents, parents and parents in-law all had hotels. My own restaurants derived around 30% of their turnover from visitors I have a lot of faith in the Island as a tourist destination, but this scheme, in this location is ill advised and will make us a laughing stock When you say "this location is ill advised", what other location have you in mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homarus Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Mark Robertshaw''s ass! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 there must have been a half decent geological reason to build the pier specifically in ramsey. stick the horse trams on it. win win 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebees Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Ramsey has already got all the best stuff, give them the horse trams too. Ha, it's always sunny in Ramsey and it's flat Cheekyboy could even have his bike tracks laid up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. ...and No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 I'm so looking forward to our local women welcoming all these visitors as they get off the cruise ships...with gifts of boxed kippers, and wearing necklaces of Manx Knobs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homarus Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) there must have been a half decent geological reason to build the pier specifically in ramsey. stick the horse trams on it. win win Well that's the Victorians for you !!! Brilliant engineers and scholars that they were , fancy building a pier in the most sheltered spot on the Island and working with nature ,how sensible is that ? Only drawback is the low water levels are quite shallow and would require either extensive dredging or Ramsey pier being extended further out which could negate the shelter aspect somewhat. Todays blue sky "Thinking outside the box" dreamers and unicorn catchers, think building a floating pontoon in a very exposed location is the way to go but ,I suspect all they can see is the big money . There are so many reasons for this folly not to go ahead,but hey IOM gov has signed up to so many loss making schemes in the past 20 odd years ,what's one more?" ETA Where's Peter Karran when you need him! Edited January 25, 2017 by homarus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeky boy Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) Orkney got £4 million into the local economy from cruise passengers With a deepwater ship berth costing in the hundreds of millions I cannot see any way of repaying the cost before the thing wears out To give you an example of a cheaper tourism investment look at Majorca. They had funds available and were considering building yet another marina, instead they invested in making the islands roads cycle friendly by widening some of the main routes and putting a 1.5 meter wide cycleway on one side The result was a massive uptake in cycle holidays in the spring & autumn when the weather was cool enough I was there last April and they had 25,000 cyclists a week going through the place, using hotels, cafes, bike hire shops, the airlines & ferries and spending considerably more than a tea & scone day tripper A huge and ongoing return for a modest investment http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-30794701 The estimated economic benefit to Orkney was £7m in 2016, the total cost of their berth was £29m (original in 2002 and then extension in 2013) The deep water berth will not cost "hundreds of millions" and its expected lifespan is 100 years. The £50m includes an estimate for shore-side infrastructure modifications, and is only an estimate based on feasibility study designs, not the final design. As stated, the business case detailing ownership/funding/revenues has to stack up, and this is the next step. If the project gets the go-ahead based on a sound business case, and for whatever reason the assumptions in the business case do not materialise over the longer term, there is still the option to sell the asset, as clearly it is moveable and it has 100 year design life. This also mitigates the financial risk. Can we just stand back for a second an take in what is being proposed here A 170 meter linkspan to a floating pontoon anchored on the outside of the current breakwater, this structure will then have ships from 20,000 to 60,000 tons berthed alongside If you consider the structure in isolation it may make sense, but when you put in in the context of the location it is a ludicrous proposal Anyone unfamiliar with conditions in that area should take a drive to the breakwater and park above the old coastguard stores On the surface it holds the biggest swells between here & Langness, the reasons being that there is a large reef which rises up in line with the lighthouse and pushes up the sea being driven toward it by the prevailing wind. These conditions are amplified when the tide ebbs and runs into the oncoming swell There is a tidal range of up to 10 meters and swells there frequently make 7 metres, The tidal flow exceeds 6 knots on a spring Oil & gas rig technology could be used to place a structure in this area with no problems, trying to berth a ship alongside it in adverse conditions would be a prospect only the skipper of the Costa Concordia would contemplate. There is also the scenario of berthing alongside it in calm conditions the morning and discharging the passengers then having to leave the berth when the wind gets up and having the passengers re-embark by ships boat back in the bay All of must have seen footage of rig support vessels trying to supply oil rigs in open water, a highly dangerous task. My background is rooted in the Manx tourist industry, my great grandparents came here and bought a hotel on the prom over 100 years ago, my grandparents, parents and parents in-law all had hotels. My own restaurants derived around 30% of their turnover from visitors I have a lot of faith in the Island as a tourist destination, but this scheme, in this location is ill advised and will make us a laughing stock When you say "this location is ill advised", what other location have you in mind? I don't have another location in mind, I'm just pointing out the unsuitability of the proposed one Edited January 25, 2017 by cheeky boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homarus Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 I don't think so CB! If that were the case why would they have spent so much time/money schmoozing and pushing the Douglas location? I think they really are that stupid! All they need to do is speak to any skipper that works the coast of the IOM and they'd tell them what a stupid idea a floating pontoon is and I think a previous poster pointed out that a former SP captain recommended that the Pier extension should have been built opposite the Lighthouse but I don't think he would have ever envisaged a floating pontoon there. I'm sure they could drive the posts deep enough to be solid but the pontoon would have to be linked to them and In big weather it would only take one link to fail and you could have a major incident on your hands . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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