b4mbi Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 41 minutes ago, homarus said: Looking at how this topic from the beginning it seems that Governments well paid and taxpayer insulated dreamers along with the well connectedmovers and shakers behind the scenes are determined to progress this fairy tale come hell or high water . First they show the stupid plebs a pretty picture with a proposed berth opposite the tower of refuge ,they when pointed out that they would have to dynamite half the existing pier structures and bay to make it work ,they proclaim ! "" Ah but the cruise liner berth was never meant for there ,it's going to be a pontoon structure outside the existing breakwater "". Again when pointed out that the new proposed location for the pontoon structure is smack in the middle of the tidal flow and prevailing winds and is dangerous they say! "" Ah but it's not going to but a pontoon structure but permanent "" When the feedback from the public remains negative pointing out that if it's such a winner that they should not need any taxpayer funding ,they then then change tack again ! "" Ah but it's not just a cruise liner berth but a proposed full port redevelopment "" They are like scum sucking bottom feeding shapeshifting barnacles this lot , and a symptom of all that has been wrong and wasteful with this Island over decades, but they're hanging on for dear life because they can almost taste the money, and as per time honored proven model will be long gone by the time the shit hits the fan . Say it again ,in proposed location it's a dangerous plan . P.S. I've included the smiley as I don't want to seem too negative! I'm glad you included the smiley! Could be that plans and proposals have adapted to critical feedback from various sources! I agree there have been mixed messages, but there are reasons for that which I can't discuss publically. A feasibility study was done into the floating breakwater, and the project was feasible in that location but on review would have been prohibitively expensive. I'm intrigued as to why you think it's a dangerous plan in the proposed location outside the Battery/Alexandra pier, as that's the only place that has the depth and length for a deep water berth. Would really appreciate some constructive criticism or evidence on that point, as local knowledge would be a vital component of any further exploration of a feasibility study or modelling of a port redesign by respected international marine port and harbour construction/engineering firms. " They are like scum sucking bottom feeding shapeshifting barnacles this lot , and a symptom of all that has been wrong and wasteful with this Island over decades, but they're hanging on for dear life because they can almost taste the money, and as per time honored proven model will be long gone by the time the shit hits the fan . " That is very cynical. People proposing these evolving ideas have the Island's best interests at heart and have spent a lot of time and effort exploring these possibilities, utilising their extensive contacts throughout the international maritime community, all of which has been for free and without any prospect of financial gain should the plans materialise. And I will stand by that 100%. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b4mbi Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 19 minutes ago, woody2 said: do you think they would want other companies operating from the new pier? according to b4mbi it would make "cheaper ferry"...... The port is operated and owned by DoI (IOMG), not IOMSPC, so ultimately they wouldn't have a say in a port expansion as that isn't covered in the User Agreement. IOMSPC have almost exclusive use of the IOMG owned linkspan on Edward Pier, and own the linkspan on Victoria Pier under which the IOMG let them keep it positioned in their harbour under license. No-one seems to know who paid for Dr Klein's flights to come over and provide "an alternative view" of the Cruise industry....but even he was stating on the radio this morning that any development should make business sense.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) It certainly wasn't the cruise ship industry. It would not have been the government either. Possibly PAG themselves. Anyone who was interested and feels they have a continued opinion should have been there. Edited November 28, 2017 by gettafa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevster Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, b4mbi said: No-one seems to know who paid for Dr Klein's flights to come over and provide "an alternative view" of the Cruise industry....but even he was stating on the radio this morning that any development should make business sense.... I would think that he didn't come all this way just to talk to a PAG meeting. He was probably doing other talks in the UK/Europe anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paswt Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 27 minutes ago, kevster said: I would think that he didn't come all this way just to talk to a PAG meeting. He was probably doing other talks in the UK/Europe anyway So a bit like a trip to say errr the Falklands or NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homarus Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, b4mbi said: The port is operated and owned by DoI (IOMG), not IOMSPC, so ultimately they wouldn't have a say in a port expansion as that isn't covered in the User Agreement. IOMSPC have almost exclusive use of the IOMG owned linkspan on Edward Pier, and own the linkspan on Victoria Pier under which the IOMG let them keep it positioned in their harbour under license. No-one seems to know who paid for Dr Klein's flights to come over and provide "an alternative view" of the Cruise industry....but even he was stating on the radio this morning that any development should make business sense.... What's the average tidal flow speed at the back of the head b4mbi mate? Oh and can you please post up a latest plan of the proposed location of the cruise berth,it would really help if we actually know where it's going to be situated . Cheers !! H Edited November 28, 2017 by homarus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, kevster said: I would think that he didn't come all this way just to talk to a PAG meeting. He was probably doing other talks in the UK/Europe anyway ITV.Com says he was invited by PAG. The guy has been into these cruises for nearly 30 years and has studied the industry throughout that time. He has a valid opinion based on experience and he was pleased to share it to an attentive audience in the Isle of Man, a place that is considering putting itself high on the cruise ship map. (*snigger*) I'll say again, if anyone believes they have anything serious to say on this matter, and has any influence whatsoever, then I would hope they would have been at the Manx Legion last evening. I believe a very small handful of Tynwald members were. Edited November 28, 2017 by gettafa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homarus Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Unfortunately I missed it as I had prior engagement would have been very interesting. I did catch a little of Stu Peters on the moan in line an hour or so back and there was a lot of feedback on the issue , one guy who was there described how at the end of the presentation members of the IOMSA who were present were invited up to put their case ,but declined to engage,which is their right ,but wouldn't you think that if this idea is such a sure fire winner they'd be keen to convince people of the merits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) My feedback and understanding from the meeting is that this is not a sure fire winner. Once there is a massive investment then the Cruise Ship Industry has you by the balls. There have been places around the world that have invested millions only to find that unless they bow to the big business they end up with a very expensive jetty for the kids to go fishing off. And don't let anyone ever use the phrase "build it and they will come", it is the sort of phrase I can imagine hearing echoing around the Tynwald Chamber. Dr Klein explained different angles of the Industry and, for example, the variation of passenger ships and the typical people they carry (high-spend....low-spend etc). There is a niche market to be had, most certainly, and the Island need not do too much to expand on that. The Isle of Man Government should bring the guy back and then bother their arses to go and listen to what he has to say. Whatever happens the Island needs to be in the driving seat, from what I have heard I'm not sure our Government are capable of doing that. Edited November 28, 2017 by gettafa 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 7 hours ago, homarus said: Looking at how this topic from the beginning it seems that Governments well paid and taxpayer insulated dreamers along with the well connectedmovers and shakers behind the scenes are determined to progress this fairy tale come hell or high water . First they show the stupid plebs a pretty picture with a proposed berth opposite the tower of refuge ,they when pointed out that they would have to dynamite half the existing pier structures and bay to make it work ,they proclaim ! "" Ah but the cruise liner berth was never meant for there ,it's going to be a pontoon structure outside the existing breakwater "". Again when pointed out that the new proposed location for the pontoon structure is smack in the middle of the tidal flow and prevailing winds and is dangerous they say! "" Ah but it's not going to be a pontoon structure but permanent "" When the feedback from the public remains negative pointing out that if it's such a winner that they should not need any taxpayer funding ,they then then change tack again ! "" Ah but it's not just a cruise liner berth but a proposed full port redevelopment "" They are like scum sucking bottom feeding shape shifting barnacles this lot , and a symptom of all that has been wrong and wasteful with this Island over decades, but they're hanging on for dear life because they can almost taste the money, and as per time honored proven model will be long gone by the time the shit hits the fan . Say it again ,in proposed location it's a dangerous plan . P.S. I've included the smiley as I don't want to seem too negative! Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Thank goodness for commonsense people such as Dr Ross Klein. The manx government need a serious reality check already over so many failed, overspent, and over-specified projects. The spend and return on a cruise terminal makes the proposal absolute madness. If it's profitable let business people do it...not taxpayers. La La Land. 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 "but think of the children" will be the next line..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Albert Tatlock said: Thank goodness for commonsense people such as Dr Ross Klein. The manx government need a serious reality check already over so many failed, overspent, and over-specified projects. The spend and return on a cruise terminal makes the proposal absolute madness. If it's profitable let business people do it...not taxpayers. La La Land. That is just about the best post you have made in the 7 or 8 years I've been on here. Concise and 100% accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 13 minutes ago, dilligaf said: That is just about the best post you have made in the 7 or 8 years I've been on here. Concise and 100% accurate. Use the search facility. You'll find at least 2000 of them since 2006. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Just don't search under albert tatlock. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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