Deepwater for Cruise Ships

[Guest MrFunk]

I don't think there will be many European cruise ports that we've not visited over the last 15 years and I can assure you that compared to just about all but the big city destinations (Rome, Barcelona, Lisbon etc) there is FAR more to do and see in a day on the Isle of Man than just about any of them.  As for the idea of a load of people rocking up, shuffling around for an hour then getting back on without spending anything you've obviously never been on a ship with Americans on their European vacation?  The right ships with the right people on would be a massive pay day to some businesses and some of the best advertising the island would ever get.  The other part of this is that when people like a place they tend to go back for a longer stay (again speaking from experience), we've had plenty of people we met come and stay on the island for a long weekend holiday when they've heard about some of the history we have, a picture of Peel castle has been enough before now.  I really don't think people appreciate a tiny fraction of what we have here...we've paid lots of money and visited some absolute shit holes where you didn't even feel safe walking to get a bus for the pleasure.  It's the weather here that kills it, generally people don't mind tendering, they do mind missing a port they've paid for because it's too rough to tender.  I don't understand why that's an issue here because there should always be one side that is sheltered, perhaps proper tender landing facilities on both sides would be a much better option?  Again it's not like that is anything new,  islands like Phuket have been doing the same for years.

On the other hand I can see the point of view of people who ask why should the government be getting involved at all?  With 0% corporation tax it's not the Manx economy that's going to gain here, it'll be a few local companies whose owners will be buying that extra Villa in Spain.  But then again you could say that about our tourism industry as a whole and especially the TT? 

  

[Bobbie Bobster]

12 minutes ago, MrFunk said:

On the other hand I can see the point of view of people who ask why should the government be getting involved at all?  With 0% corporation tax it's not the Manx economy that's going to gain here, it'll be a few local companies whose owners will be buying that extra Villa in Spain.  But then again you could say that about our tourism industry as a whole and especially the TT?

Interesting point, thanks.

Just one clarification re the above.  Employment, income tax, NI contributions, VAT will all benefit the local economy.  It's the basic premise of the IoM economy.

[monasqueen]

33 minutes ago, woody2 said:

 

the scottish ports don't, its funded by the scots gov. so will iomg do the same.....

Scottish ports do not allow ships in for nothing. They have to get their funds somehow.

Orkney charge 35p per day per gross tonne for cruise ships landing at Kirkwall and Stromness. If you take a ship such as P&Os Oriana, which is 69,153 gross tonnes, that works out at £24,203.55, which equates to £13 per passenger (if the ship has its full complement of 1,858 passengers). They claim that they get 140 cruise ships calling annually. A lot of them are small, but some are big. That's quite a lot of money.

https://www.orkneyharbours.com/sectors/cruise-ships

[Guest MrFunk]

5 minutes ago, Bobbie Bobster said:

Interesting point, thanks.

Just one clarification re the above.  Employment, income tax, NI contributions, VAT will all benefit the local economy.  It's the basic premise of the IoM economy.

You are right, our economy is based on the indirect benefits of businesses putting bums on seats (topped up with VAT fiddles) as opposed to direct taxation but tourism makes so little difference in that respect, especially when we have virtually zero unemployment as it is.  If our tourism industry went completely tomorrow you honestly think it would make a massive difference to government finances, keeping in mind average salaries?  I don't, 12-18 months adjustment and everything would be as it was in terms of unemployment, IT and NI?

That's why I'd wan't the people who can potentially gain the most to put in the most for anything like this to proceed. 

ps Massive fan of the TT and all it brings but my point of view is that any possible financial benefits from it are to a few whilst the cost is spread across the many? Exactly the same as the cruise industry would be if the Government gets too involved. 

[Bobbie Bobster]

35 minutes ago, MrFunk said:

If our tourism industry went completely tomorrow you honestly think it would make a massive difference to government finances, keeping in mind average salaries?  I don't, 12-18 months adjustment and everything would be as it was in terms of unemployment, IT and NI?

That's why I'd wan't the people who can potentially gain the most to put in the most for anything like this to proceed. 

ps Massive fan of the TT and all it brings but my point of view is that any possible financial benefits from it are to a few whilst the cost is spread across the many? Exactly the same as the cruise industry would be if the Government gets too involved. 

"If our tourism industry went completely tomorrow" - No, but this is about marginal gains and diversifying the economy away from financial services, about increasing the contribution to the economy from tourism, which is laudable from a risk management point of view.  Whether the economics of it stack up (capex for facilities vs. revenue from tourists) I don't know, and the split between public and private funding is another complex question.

In a scenario where facilities were developed that could potentially be used for larger ropax vessels (thereby increasing the choice of available vessels and possibly better services) then I wouldn't be averse to some government funding.  No idea whether this is feasible, but I use it as an example.

I think I'm agreeing with you in general.

[thebees]

3 hours ago, monasqueen said:

Saga have been very good in comparison. Good food, which is plated to order, not dished up canteen style.  They give their chef a budget for local purchases. I've not encountered anything in the way of ruffians. I think that must be the exception, and you must have been very unlucky, bees.

The very cheek of it! I am certainly NOT old enough for a Saga holiday, cruise or otherwise  I saw Saga people, they were in big groups.

[woody2]

1 hour ago, monasqueen said:

Scottish ports do not allow ships in for nothing. They have to get their funds somehow.

Orkney charge 35p per day per gross tonne for cruise ships landing at Kirkwall and Stromness. If you take a ship such as P&Os Oriana, which is 69,153 gross tonnes, that works out at £24,203.55, which equates to £13 per passenger (if the ship has its full complement of 1,858 passengers). They claim that they get 140 cruise ships calling annually. A lot of them are small, but some are big. That's quite a lot of money.

https://www.orkneyharbours.com/sectors/cruise-ships

the scot gov. have a scheme that reduces this to nothing....

[gettafa]

Sorry to hammer the cyncial line here. Some might say it is realistic though.

The scot.gov may well have reduced this to nothing, but has the move been driven by the Cruise Ship Industry, or the Scottish Government.

At the moment everyone seems to be clamouring for their trade, which is fair enough, but the Cruise Ship Industry is firmly in the driving seat. Once a port becomes reliant on them, then thngs can change.

"The Cruise Ship Industry plays hardball"

 

[Non-Believer]

4 minutes ago, gettafa said:

"The Cruise Ship Industry plays hardball"

 

They'll find themselves a nice, soft pair of hands over here then. Look at Peel Ports for evidence of that. Worrying times.

[woody2]

the only gain to be made is the vat, forget local spend, the extra staff the museums will need will cancel that out.....

 

[dilligaf]

4 hours ago, P.K. said:

How big are the smaller cruisers?

I'm thinking revisiting the wrecked pier at PE. Buffet lunch on the whistle stop. Maybe coach to the castle at Peel. Grab yourself a kipper.

Stuff like that.

Is that not causing lots of problems in Hollywood ATM ?

[gettafa]

Orkney seem to be doing ok. Here's a clip from Manx Radio Opinion on Sunday (full programme and Mannin Line is on Listen Again still):

 

 

 

[Roger Mexico]

42 minutes ago, gettafa said:

Orkney seem to be doing ok. 

I'm not really sure that they are doing that spectacularly well out of cruise ships.  There was an interesting BBC Scotland documentary in the summer:

Orkney When the Boat Comes In

and I got the impression that apart from a few obvious people (such as the coach company) not many were benefiting that much (and the documentary certainly seemed to be looking  on the bright side if anything.  Of course they already had suitable harbours, so there isn't the massive capital investment required and they are likely to get more cruises because of where they are anyway.  Fewer cruises go up the Irish Sea and there are alternatives to the Island (Liverpool, Dublin) for those doing that.

But then, as so often in the Island recently, massive capital spending seems to be the reason why things are done rather than to produce anything useful.

 

[woody2]

invergordon sees no financial impact....

[gettafa]

1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

Orkney When the Boat Comes In

 

The charity shops do a roaring trade from the mostly Asian crew. They should hook up off Ramsey then.