Zammo Maguire Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 My prediction about this gathering its own momentum without recourse to common sense appears to be happening rather sooner than I anticipated, MHK's are now citing cruise ship passengers as a reason we must keep the horse trams the full length of the prom and have voted to do so ! I predict cruise ship passengers will be the buzzword in government circles for the foreseeable future ! Good plan. Have the tracks the full length so the cruise passengers completely bypass the main shopping area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTJ Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I fired up the Fermi estimator and this is what I got. Average direct spend per cruise visitor seems to be order of magnitude about £100. Say indirect spend via fees, service costs etc is 50% on top of that. Assume smallish vessels, max 1,000 and 80% of the passengers visit. So that's £120k turnover per ship visit. Take the "economic benefit" as similar to the margin on the turnover at about 25%, that's £30k per ship visit. Say 50 visits per season, that's £1.5m per annum of benefit. Very quick and dirty analysis, but the direct economic benefit busienss case doesn't seem to stack up. ETA: There's probably a VAT/tax benefit in addition which might double the economic benefit, but it's still a long paybacl for £50mil. The average cruise visitor spends around £10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 The deep water cruise liner berth was discussed in a previous topic complete with mock up plans ,but I can't remember which one ? Could somebody please re-post the proposed plan showing the harbour and Douglas bay ? I just want to reinforce to myself how fucking stupid and costly this whole new fiasco is going to be if it ever gets the go ahead !! Link for more gloss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Yes I remember that too. It looked as though they would have to demolish three quarters of Lower Douglas to fit it in. ETA: Wasn't it called "Maritime Gateway"? Or it might have been Marmite Gateway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b4mbi Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) Why is everything always being considered for Douglas? Apart from it being an absolute disgrace and shameful, Douglas is set up as our business centre where a large percentage of the population come in to work, and the town has developed to service such. It is not set up to service cruise ship passengers. Make Peel our heritage and tourist centre for cruise ships, hell for our whole tourist industry. The view of the cliffs, Castle and town to the approaching cruise ship passengers (weather permitting) will be pretty spectacular. It has ample attractions like the kipper smoking, the old and new cathedrals, quirky shops and pubs, nick-nacky lanes, House of Mannanan etc. Tynwald Hill and Mills are fairly proximate too. It is just the sort of seafaring place that the tourists alighting in Orkney, the Shetlands, the Faroes and Norway expect to find. The Cathedral could put on a Cruise Ship Choral evensong for the visitors and other similar attractions could make it all a bit different from the other places. A larger berth will also allow Peel to welcome passenger ferries and freighters from Ireland too, cutting crossing times significantly. So come on you Western MHKs, get out of your newly gained Douglas-centric mindset and shout out for the benefit of those people who elected you. DED touristy people, get yourselves and your minds out on the number 5 or 6 bus for a 25 minute ride and discover a quaint town called Peel. It is safe to go out of Douglas you know, well at least in daylight. Insufficient draft at Peel to berth cruise ships, likewise Ramsey & Port Erin. Need 10m low water depth minimum - only place for that is Douglas outside Alexandra Pier. If you don't have that depth, you restrict what vessels can come and cruise ships only getting bigger. To maximise potential, vessels need to berth, tendering no good for the cruise demographic, nor for the cruise liners. A usual port call is 10hrs or so plenty of time for excursions to the other towns (and city) and all they offer.. Edited January 18, 2017 by b4mbi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Valley Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Surely £50 million can sort out the depth issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Surely £50 million can sort out the depth issue? Not the way Ms Reynolds works. It'll have to be at least twice that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Surely £50 million can sort out the depth issue? Not the way Ms Reynolds works. It'll have to be at least twice that. And treble the staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Slow down there boyo! With global warming and rising seas the whole of lower Douglas will be under water soon. The cruise ships will be able to berth at the top of Crellins Hill, could go straight to the Museum or via subs to the SeaHorse Trams!!! Or sail through the flooded central valley to what is left of Peel? There are some 30 cruise ships due this year but don't go thinking 2000 pax, most are a few hundred and many will not actually stop here because of changes to scheduling or the whim of the Captain. The govt expect a return of 13% on spend for the TT. That included accommodation and evening meals. Nothng wrong with the cruise ships stopping here but return on capital should be a priority. The govt would be better giving Steve Carter a 100k for a swish new Tender? If the Steam Packet get competition on freight they will have to raise passenger fares? So less tourists? Still, we can rely on our Govt to consider all the costs and benefits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 The deep water cruise liner berth was discussed in a previous topic complete with mock up plans ,but I can't remember which one ? Could somebody please re-post the proposed plan showing the harbour and Douglas bay ? I just want to reinforce to myself how fucking stupid and costly this whole new fiasco is going to be if it ever gets the go ahead !! Link for more gloss Oh wow that's amazing. Are they going to blow up the tower of refuge and conister rock then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homarus Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) The deep water cruise liner berth was discussed in a previous topic complete with mock up plans ,but I can't remember which one ? Could somebody please re-post the proposed plan showing the harbour and Douglas bay ? I just want to reinforce to myself how fucking stupid and costly this whole new fiasco is going to be if it ever gets the go ahead !! Link for more gloss Oh wow that's amazing. Are they going to blow up the tower of refuge and conister rock then? Yup they'll have to and also knock at least 10m of the Armoured Breakwater losing the Dolphin as well as blasting out hundreds of thousands of tons of bedrock ,most probably undermining Alexandra Pier and surrounding areas in the process. That is if they intend to put it where they show on the cartoon. Why are we paying these people ? A blind man with a stick can see it's one more moronic idea after one more moronic idea . As said before it would be cheaper to get the SP figures of all tourism related traffic per year and pay them a 100% subsidy on all motorists and foot passengers above the last years numbers ,then try to offset it against increased tourist spend figures !! Edited January 19, 2017 by homarus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I think the business derived from cruise visits is a myth Most trips are mugged and trucked off to a series of MNH venues on a whistlestop tour with no benefit to the general traders of the Island, then they are off again. Before anything gets any further there needs to be positive proof of the benefit, not just overoptimistic crystal ball gazing 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I think the business derived from cruise visits is a myth Most trips are mugged and trucked off to a series of MNH venues on a whistlestop tour with no benefit to the general traders of the Island, then they are off again. Before anything gets any further there needs to be positive proof of the benefit, not just overoptimistic crystal ball gazing Yes but she says that the £50 million will be paid back in 5 years. She says so. She's an expert. The government must believe her because she says so and she's an expert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 If they can do it cheap, then why not - but these people never do anything cheap. Cruise passengers don't spend much - they get fed and sleep on the ship, so all that leaves are day trips. There aren't even any proper souvenir shops left, so what would they do? Go up and down the mountain once and leave? Maybe if people like MNH work together with cruise companies to offer tours, it may bring some money, but nowhere near what they think and if anyone thinks they could make 50m, they need shooting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manx Bean Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 Like I have said before, there is little point in building a state of the art facility for the Cruise Ships if there is next to feck all for the passengers to do when they get here! Tourism is what it is. Its never ever, ever, ever going to generate the revenue DED keeps harping on about, and they need to get over themselves and move on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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