Barrie Stevens Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Manximus etc. But you have always been subject to the rules and regs most of them of the Common Market/EEC/EU in a limited form by the terms of Protocol 3 appended to the UK Treaty of Accession 1973. I will leave you to look this up. It covers trade, freedom of movement, agricultural products, Euratom and all sorts etc. Tynwald Library has box files of laws and rules and regs relating to the EEC/EU matters affecting the Island directly or by choice. The EU was created by the Maastricht Treaty in 1992 and came into being 1993 and the Isle of Man itself signed this treaty in the days of Sir Miles Walker as Chief Minister. I requested and was given the actual document to read by appointment in Tynwald Library. I believe that it is a limited or slightly truncated version due to the Island's position under Protocol 3. On the other hand we are told that if there is a full Brexit then Protocol 3 will fall. When the Island wanted to control the supply/price of bread in the days of Leonard Singer (Who had the burden) the issue had to go up to the European Commission who basically threw it out. Last I looked the meat plant had a sort of EC Licence and supervision and that was printed on the underside of the meat packets in the shops. There used to be a derogation restricting the supply and price of Manx meat until the EEC or EC cancelled it by stages hence the beginning of meat plant problems and increased imports. My old British Islands passport issued 2008 now expired says "European Union" and the last I looked the Island had to report to Brussels every few years on the number of people on the Island who qualified as "Manxmen" under Protocol 3. Then there was the co-operation on information exchange/offshore accounts etc. Tynwald is subject to UK as the sovereign power and allegedly some of that sovereignty was subsumed to Brussels (Yet we can make laws to Brexit?) So whatever Tynwald's situation once the UK joined the Common Market and then the EU the Island's position moved with it by implication, adoption, compliance and within the limits of Protocol 3. The Island is also a member of the Council of the Peripheral Maritime Regions of Europe which is not an EU or EEC organisation but serves to give a voice and understanding to the peripheral regions. (See link below).. Many Island residents did have a vote in the Brexit referendum by virtue of the UK 15 year rule on eligibility to vote. But the referendum itself was not held on the Island. https://cpmr.org/ https://www.europeaninterest.eu/article/hon-howard-quayle-isle-man-not-member-eu/ I must say I have written this from memory but I think nothing much has changed and as the Island has not an independent line into the EU what will happen when Protocol 3 goes west on Brexit Day? I suggest that like the original UK attempts to join the Common Market the Island will have to put up with whatever terms the UK gets for it or decides that it should have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Sounds pretty much as I recall it all, Bazza. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Just now, woolley said: Sounds pretty much as I recall it all, Bazza. Yes. The Island's activities as a member of the Conference of the Peripheral Maritime Regions of Europe is not lauded and often lumped in with the UK but if you dig you will see it there.. https://cpmr.org/ CPMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 5 hours ago, Freggyragh said: Yeah, it’s genuine. If you go to the official EU website, you’ll find a link to it on the page called ‘Banana Regs, Kipper Posting Protocols and #Woodyfacts’. do you want to borrow a shovel.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 17 hours ago, P.K. said: Talking of proof time for a Brexit sense-check: ETA : Have to say the last item is a bit of a blow because I was hoping something good might actually come out of it.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, Barrie Stevens said: Manximus etc. But you have always been subject to the rules and regs most of them of the Common Market/EEC/EU in a limited form by the terms of Protocol 3 appended to the UK Treaty of Accession 1973. I will leave you to look this up. It covers trade, freedom of movement, agricultural products, Euratom and all sorts etc. ............ Barrie, Thank you for the information but I don't actually need to look it up as I was fully aware of it anyway, thank you nevertheless. My point is this; The UK joined the EU (Then Common Market) in January 1973. I have been a UK taxpayer since prior to 1973 and therefore I have made my fair share of the UK's contribution to the EU budget every month for the last 46 years. In addition, I have paid IOM tax for the last seven years (I still have UK business interests hence still pay tax there as well). Whilst I have never been a great fan of the EU (I was not violently against it either) - I have nevertheless paid my contributions, abided by EU regulations, accepted its diktats, and conceded the handover of political decisions year on year because I respected the earlier referendums and the democratic view of the majority. We now have the 2016 referendum, the vote by Parliament to invoke Article 50 - I expected the referendum and the democratic view of the majority to be similarly respected. Having 'sucked it up' myself for 43 years prior to 2016 - I expected fair play in return - but I do understand that the result will not please the 48% who voted remain. I do think that there should be understanding of their feelings, and action taken to soften any blows to individuals, businesses and organisations. Nevertheless, Democracy has to be respected too. What sticks in the throat however, is not the disappointment of the 48% in the UK - But the pages and pages of outrage in this thread (and the other) expressed by people who have never subjected themselves to EU referendums, never handed over any political decisions to the EU, retained their own Parliament in its entirety, and choose not to subject the GDP/Per Capita figures of the IOM to for calculation by Brussels as to the annual contributions required (which, given the high GDP/Cap would be very significant indeed). I'm not taking any lectures from 'Pseudo-Remainers' who have never actually joined in the first place! Let these people cough up 46 years of contributions, subject themselves to 46 years of EU Diktat, and organise a referendum to do so before lecturing those of us who have already done just that as to why we should continue to do so for their benefit when they have never been prepared to do it for themselves! As I said, Cake and Eat it! Edited October 12, 2019 by Manximus Aururaneus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 snowflake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 28 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said: That looks suspiciously like a Boris turnabout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 https://www.fca.org.uk/firms/preparing-for-brexit The above Brexit advice could well apply to the Island's finance sector Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Freggyragh said: We may not be members, or have got a vote - doesn’t mean the issues aren’t important or that our situation won’t change if brexit were to ever happen. I fully accept that - I am as affected by it every bit as much as you. My issue is not what benefits you may or may not like from the EU, but the fact that you want other people to meet the cost of doing so politically, democratically, administratively and financially whilst not being prepared to do so yourself. We've had 1,000+ pages of the Pseudo-Remainers talking the talk, now it's time to see if they will walk the walk. Are they prepared to organise a referendum on the Isle of Man for the Island to agree to commence alignment with EU rules pending an application to join? The associated costs will be vast, including major overhaul of the Island's tax, political, fiscal, social, law, and administration systems - but the Pseudo-Remainers who have never joined assure us that there is a majority for supporting such costs. Fine, demonstrate that fact, what's stopping you? Edited October 12, 2019 by Manximus Aururaneus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 35 minutes ago, Barrie Stevens said: That looks suspiciously like a Boris turnabout awkward u-turn outside no.10............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 25 minutes ago, woody2 said: awkward u-turn outside no.10............. Well Tusk did ask Boris to come up with some concrete proposals! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 33 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said: I fully accept that - I am as affected by it every bit as much as you. My issue is not what benefits you may or may not like from the EU, but the fact that you want other people to meet the cost of doing so politically, democratically, administratively and financially whilst not being prepared to do so yourself. We've had 1,000+ pages of the Pseudo-Remainers talking the talk, now it's time to see if they will walk the walk. Are they prepared to organise a referendum on the Isle of Man for the Island to align itself with EU rules pending an application to join? The associated costs will be vast, including major overhaul of the Island's tax, political, social, law, and administration systems - but the Pseudo-Remainers who have never joined assure us that there is a majority for supporting such costs. Fine, demonstrate that fact, what's stopping you? The Isle of Man cannot join the EU as membership is restricted to sovereign states. You will first have to become independent. You can with UK permission hold a Referendum on independence and see what happens. You can hold a local but legally ineffectual Referendum. You will as new applicants need to qualify to join the Euro. You will have to be able to adopt the full Acquis or body of laws. Tynwald decided long ago that the Island had not the resources to do this. I think the Remainers on here do not expect the Island to be in the EU but they are projecting their opinions into the UK situation. I still say that the UK will ever truly be out of the EU. It would be like Canadians pretending not to be Americans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 above should say never be truly out of the EU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Barrie Stevens said: The Isle of Man cannot join the EU as membership is restricted to sovereign states. You will first have to become independent. You can with UK permission hold a Referendum on independence and see what happens. You can hold a local but legally ineffectual Referendum. You will as new applicants need to qualify to join the Euro. You will have to be able to adopt the full Acquis or body of laws. Tynwald decided long ago that the Island had not the resources to do this. I think the Remainers on here do not expect the Island to be in the EU but they are projecting their opinions into the UK situation. I still say that the UK will ever truly be out of the EU. It would be like Canadians pretending not to be Americans. Then the Island needs to write a polite letter to Her Majesty expressing it's wish to cease being a Crown dependency and apply for EU membership instead. (Walk the Walk). The Islands finances most certainly stack up against some of the poorer EU members so it's not a matter of "not having the resources" let's be honest - its a matter of wanting to keep the resources and let the UK do all the heavy lifting for us. A work-around would be to piggy-back on the Republic of Ireland's membership having relinquished Crown dependency. Cake and eat it again. Edited October 12, 2019 by Manximus Aururaneus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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