manxman1980 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 As Barrie has pointed out the Isle of Man may not be a member of the EU but through Protocol 3 we do have some regulatory alignment with the EU. If nothing else I am pissed off that I will lose the right to freely travel, work and live in EU member states. I am also concerned about what the UK Government might do whilst it comes to terms with leaving the EU. Finally, if there is a border in the Irish Sea what does that mean for the Island? We will remain part of the CTA with the island of Ireland but how will we differentiate between Irish/British Citizens and EU Citizens coming from Ireland? Will Ireland check people before they depart or will the Isle of Man have to do the checks? Or will there be no checks at all meaning the whole thing about taking back control of our borders is nonsense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Just now, Manximus Aururaneus said: Then the Island needs to write a polite letter to Her Majesty expressing it's wish to cease being a Crown dependency and apply for EU membership instead. (Walk the Walk). The Islands finances most certainly stack up against some of the poorer EU members so it's not a matter of "not having the resources" let's be honest - its a matter of wanting to keep the resources and let the UK do all the heavy lifting for us. Cake and eat it again. Please explain what Her Majesty has to do with the situation. Nd by the way which poorer members...It is not money it is capacity to engage... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: As Barrie has pointed out the Isle of Man may not be a member of the EU but through Protocol 3 we do have some regulatory alignment with the EU. If nothing else I am pissed off that I will lose the right to freely travel, work and live in EU member states. I am also concerned about what the UK Government might do whilst it comes to terms with leaving the EU. Finally, if there is a border in the Irish Sea what does that mean for the Island? We will remain part of the CTA with the island of Ireland but how will we differentiate between Irish/British Citizens and EU Citizens coming from Ireland? Will Ireland check people before they depart or will the Isle of Man have to do the checks? Or will there be no checks at all meaning the whole thing about taking back control of our borders is nonsense But hey, you'll get a blue passport...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Just now, manxman1980 said: As Barrie has pointed out the Isle of Man may not be a member of the EU but through Protocol 3 we do have some regulatory alignment with the EU. If nothing else I am pissed off that I will lose the right to freely travel, work and live in EU member states. I am also concerned about what the UK Government might do whilst it comes to terms with leaving the EU. Finally, if there is a border in the Irish Sea what does that mean for the Island? We will remain part of the CTA with the island of Ireland but how will we differentiate between Irish/British Citizens and EU Citizens coming from Ireland? Will Ireland check people before they depart or will the Isle of Man have to do the checks? Or will there be no checks at all meaning the whole thing about taking back control of our borders is nonsense Last I looked you were checked on entering the UK and Ireland and thereafter the CTA applied although there was some flurry about change years ago. I am not up to date with this. I have in the past done cleaning jobs with people who entered the Irish Republic, got some sort of visa like holiday or ancestry research etc then crossed into the UK via Northern Ireland and thence to the IOM where they worked without work permits but no one bothered about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: As Barrie has pointed out the Isle of Man may not be a member of the EU but through Protocol 3 we do have some regulatory alignment with the EU. If nothing else I am pissed off that I will lose the right to freely travel, work and live in EU member states. I am also concerned about what the UK Government might do whilst it comes to terms with leaving the EU. Finally, if there is a border in the Irish Sea what does that mean for the Island? We will remain part of the CTA with the island of Ireland but how will we differentiate between Irish/British Citizens and EU Citizens coming from Ireland? Will Ireland check people before they depart or will the Isle of Man have to do the checks? Or will there be no checks at all meaning the whole thing about taking back control of our borders is nonsense But, by leaving the EU, the UK is doing nothing more than the Isle of Man already does! 1. Having it's own Parliament. 2. Setting its own laws. 3. Setting its own taxes etc. etc. Why should UK taxpayers be expected to subject themselves to costs and regulations associated with EU membership to benefit the IOM whilst the IOM itself chooses to avoid those very same costs and regulations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: As Barrie has pointed out the Isle of Man may not be a member of the EU but through Protocol 3 we do have some regulatory alignment with the EU. If nothing else I am pissed off that I will lose the right to freely travel, work and live in EU member states. I am also concerned about what the UK Government might do whilst it comes to terms with leaving the EU. Finally, if there is a border in the Irish Sea what does that mean for the Island? We will remain part of the CTA with the island of Ireland but how will we differentiate between Irish/British Citizens and EU Citizens coming from Ireland? Will Ireland check people before they depart or will the Isle of Man have to do the checks? Or will there be no checks at all meaning the whole thing about taking back control of our borders is nonsense no you won't...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 remoan mp's are planning to add a referendum to any deal bj brings back.......#nodeal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 9 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said: Then the Island needs to write a polite letter to Her Majesty expressing it's wish to cease being a Crown dependency and apply for EU membership instead. (Walk the Walk). The Islands finances most certainly stack up against some of the poorer EU members so it's not a matter of "not having the resources" let's be honest - its a matter of wanting to keep the resources and let the UK do all the heavy lifting for us. Cake and eat it again. Boris has exposed the truth the Queen has no power. Our post Civil War constitutional settlement is a pretence and only works if you want it to work. It gave us the advantage and a head start of 100 years or more during which time others had their upheavals and revolutions. Now we can see its limitations. Write to HM and you will be referred to the Lt Governor. Write to the Queen and a Lady in Waiting will reply... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, Barrie Stevens said: Last I looked you were checked on entering the UK and Ireland and thereafter the CTA applied although there was some flurry about change years ago. I am not up to date with this. I have in the past done cleaning jobs with people who entered the Irish Republic, got some sort of visa like holiday or ancestry research etc then crossed into the UK via Northern Ireland and thence to the IOM where they worked without work permits but no one bothered about it. Ah yes, IOM work permits, I forgot about them. Not allowed should the IOM join the EU of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Barrie Stevens said: Boris has exposed the truth the Queen has no power. Our post Civil War constitutional settlement is a pretence and only works if you want it to work. It gave us the advantage and a head start of 100 years or more during which time others had their upheavals and revolutions. Now we can see its limitations. Write to HM and you will be referred to the Lt Governor. Write to the Queen and a Lady in Waiting will reply... If that's true, then whats stopping the IOM just walking away? Edited October 12, 2019 by Manximus Aururaneus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said: But, by leaving the EU, the UK is doing nothing more than the Isle of Man already does! 1. Having it's own Parliament. 2. Setting its own laws. 3. Setting its own taxes etc. etc. Why should UK taxpayers be expected to subject themselves to costs and regulations associated with EU membership to benefit the IOM whilst the IOM itself chooses to avoid those very same costs and regulations? The Isle of Man does these things under UK sovereignty and permission without which they would not exist. It is part of the constitutional settlement. Last I looked the UK not only had a parliament but three regionally devolved ones as well. OK one is out of action for now. The UK sets its own taxes the EU has not impacted on this. The UK sets its own laws. Where the EEC-EU impacted it was with parliamentary consent so one can hardly blame "Them" in Brussels as what ever was conceded was so done by a sovereign parliament otherwise Brexit would not be possible. Now if the UK were in a federal EU that might be very different. Go to Tynwald library and see the mass of EEC-EU law applying to the Isle of Man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 17 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said: But, by leaving the EU, the UK is doing nothing more than the Isle of Man already does! 1. Having it's own Parliament. 2. Setting its own laws. 3. Setting its own taxes etc. etc. Why should UK taxpayers be expected to subject themselves to costs and regulations associated with EU membership to benefit the IOM whilst the IOM itself chooses to avoid those very same costs and regulations? The UK does those things itself already.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said: Ah yes, IOM work permits, I forgot about them. Not allowed should the IOM join the EU of course. The IOM will only join the EU as part of the UK and never on its own. So it will never join and work permits were a special concession under Protocol 3 as the IOM chose not to proceed towards the Single Market under the UK Treaty of Accession. A more practical consideration is whether post-Brexit and N Ireland special measures will in turn enforce or imply a change in Crown Dependency status in tandem with whatever momentous change occurs in the UK... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Barrie Stevens said: The Isle of Man does these things under UK sovereignty and permission without which they would not exist. It is part of the constitutional settlement. Last I looked the UK not only had a parliament but three regionally devolved ones as well. OK one is out of action for now. The UK sets its own taxes the EU has not impacted on this. The UK sets its own laws. Where the EEC-EU impacted it was with parliamentary consent so one can hardly blame "Them" in Brussels as what ever was conceded was so done by a sovereign parliament otherwise Brexit would not be possible. Now if the UK were in a federal EU that might be very different. Go to Tynwald library and see the mass of EEC-EU law applying to the Isle of Man. I think that you need to visit the library too Barrie. The EU describes itself as a 'Federation'. Minimum Corporation tax is enforced by EU (IOM has none). IOM is a Crown Dependency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 16 minutes ago, woody2 said: no you won't...... You need to do some research... Unless the UK agrees to retain freedom of movement then the EU member states will remove that right from British citizens. If Brexit happens on the 31st October then British citizens will probably be able to move freely within the EU for up to 3 months after which time they will need a Visa (mirroring what will happen to EU citizens in the UK). The decision though will be down to the individual EU member states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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