So the UK is finished says Theresa Mayhem

[Freggyragh]

11 minutes ago, woolley said:

That's even more off the wall than your idea about the Irish crashing the UK property market. No deal not gonna, never was gonna, happen.

Yeah, you’re right. It’ll be a very slightly reworded version of Theresa’s Backstop WA. Anyway, as is, it looks like there’ll be one or two members leaving the U.K. (even if only to all intents and purposes) a good while before another member leaves the EU. 

[woolley]

1 minute ago, Freggyragh said:

Household standards like food, water, milk,  children’s clothing, books, postage stamps, newspapers, financial and property transactions -all at 0%. The U.K.’s purchase tax was pretty bureaucratic even in an age when consumer choice was pretty restricted - totally unsuitable for a chancellor in this day and age to be setting the rate for each different category of product - and a cats cradle of a mess for business or individual buying or selling across borders. You claim to think that the Common Market was a good idea, but here you seem to be arguing for separate tax codes for every different product in every state, without a common set of agreements or rules or a court to oversee their implementation. You don’t actually want that, do you? 

Even purchase tax was not as bureaucratic as VAT, but there are more efficient consumption taxes than VAT without to PT. A free trade agreement is fine, but not if used as an excuse to harmonise law, taxes, social legislation, currencies etc. across a continent.

[TheTeapot]

Yeah, taking back control, set new VAT rates, escape from the control of the evil frenchies, what are we going down to, 10%?

[woolley]

Just now, Freggyragh said:

Yeah, you’re right. It’ll be a very slightly reworded version of Theresa’s Backstop WA. Anyway, as is, it looks like there’ll be one or two members leaving the U.K. (even if only to all intents and purposes) a good while before another member leaves the EU. 

Well I wouldn't put your pension on that.

[Freggyragh]

7 minutes ago, woolley said:

No, but that isn't the point. It's a tax mandated by an external authority.

That enables the operation of the largest tariff free zone on earth. And it’s not a wholly external authority; the U.K. has votes, vetos and influence in all the decision making processes. 

[Freggyragh]

4 minutes ago, woolley said:

Well I wouldn't put your pension on that.

I wouldn’t bet a penny on any outcome. Well, not unless Woody says it can’t happen. 

[Freggyragh]

6 minutes ago, woolley said:

Even purchase tax was not as bureaucratic as VAT, but there are more efficient consumption taxes than VAT without to PT. A free trade agreement is fine, but not if used as an excuse to harmonise law, taxes, social legislation, currencies etc. across a continent.

VAT works fine. You’ve obviously never had to calculate and file a purchase tax return with different set rates for the different products supplied, or sort out who is liable for the tax on products when they’ve been forwarded to end-users, wholesalers, exported or supplied as parts to a manufacturer. VAT may not always be as fair, but it is an infinitely simpler system. 

[woolley]

16 minutes ago, Freggyragh said:

VAT works fine. You’ve obviously never had to calculate and file a purchase tax return with different set rates for the different products supplied, or sort out who is liable for the tax on products when they’ve been forwarded to end-users, wholesalers, exported or supplied as parts to a manufacturer. VAT may not always be as fair, but it is an infinitely simpler system. 

Purchase tax was not paid by everyone in the supply chain, so it was far less bureaucratic. The number of taxpayers increased thirtyfold on the introduction of VAT. PT was levied at source of the product on the wholesale price and it therefore only involved the manufacturer or importer. No sorting out "who is liable for the tax on products  forwarded to end users" etc. Not rocket science, and mainly dealt with by large concerns with the resources to do it. VAT has to be declared and reclaimed on every component that goes to make a product right down the supply chain. It is not simple, it is ludicrous. A sales tax would be simpler than either.

Edited October 15, 2019 by woolley

[Barrie Stevens]

1 hour ago, woolley said:

No shit, Sherlock. Even if this went through, there would be the future relationship to sort out. There are less than three months before the 2020s.

They are saying mid 2020s ie poss 2025

[Freggyragh]

8 hours ago, woolley said:

Purchase tax was not paid by everyone in the supply chain, so it was far less bureaucratic. The number of taxpayers increased thirtyfold on the introduction of VAT. PT was levied at source of the product on the wholesale price and it therefore only involved the manufacturer or importer. No sorting out "who is liable for the tax on products  forwarded to end users" etc. Not rocket science, and mainly dealt with by large concerns with the resources to do it. VAT has to be declared and reclaimed on every component that goes to make a product right down the supply chain. It is not simple, it is ludicrous. A sales tax would be simpler than either.

You have a childlike understanding of manufacturing. The various rates, the difficulty of establishing when a product is complete and can no longer be added to, and what constitutes  a wholesale price all conspired to make the old purchase tax a litigation disaster that was notoriously difficult to collect by 1973 - bringing it back now would be idiotic, unless you’re planning to have supply chains and consumer choice  return back to the 1950s. 
 

Sales taxes, - a flat rate across all taxed sales, that I would agree with. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Freggyragh

[woody2]

10 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

No...  VAT is not an EU tax but I am sure you know that already. 

you don't know anything about the eu........

[woolley]

6 hours ago, Freggyragh said:

You have a childlike understanding of manufacturing. The various rates, the difficulty of establishing when a product is complete and can no longer be added to, and what constitutes  a wholesale price all conspired to make the old purchase tax a litigation disaster that was notoriously difficult to collect by 1973 - bringing it back now would be idiotic, unless you’re planning to have supply chains and consumer choice  return back to the 1950s. 
 

Sales taxes, - a flat rate across all taxed sales, that I would agree with. 

A childlike understanding? Right. The number of fundamental errors you have made in this exchange on the subject demonstrates that your grasp of the application of purchase tax is of a level similar to that of your comprehension of the relative net worth of the UK and Ireland - extremely tenuous.  Nonetheless,  thanks for the gratuitous insult before you decided to agree with me about a sales tax being simpler than either.  

[P.K.]

10 hours ago, woolley said:

No, but that isn't the point. It's a tax mandated by an external authority.

Oh dear.

Still trying to justify the "regaining our sovereignty" nonsense. Probably the biggest con trick of the lot. And that's saying something! I mean, it wasn't as if the VAT levy went to the EU or something and in any event the UK rate has always been higher!

Last month Chancellor Savid Javid was crowing "The end of austerity" as if he was personally responsible for it. Clown. Especially as the rise was supposed to end austerity by 2015 = FAIL.

So why hasn't UK VAT gone back down to 17.5%...?

[mojomonkey]

Aim higher, when is it going back down to the the 1980s level of 15%?

[Manximus Aururaneus]

Now that matters are actually coming down to the wire, the latest polls are hardening significantly in favour of leave, Project Fear and Project Stupid seem to have backfired spectacularly as expected.

A  major new survey of 26,000 people has  found that 54 percent of respondents support abiding by the 2016 referendum result and leaving the European Union. A new ComRes poll, published last night, found that 50 percent of people would prefer to leave, compared with 42 percent who want to remain. However, when those who answered "don't know" are excluded, the figure for leaving the EU rises to 54 percent, compared to 46 percent in favour of remain. The poll represents a major boost for the Prime Minister at a critical phase of the Brexit process, and appears to defy the trend of recent smaller polls, which have tended to show a majority in favour of Remain.