P.K. Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 47 minutes ago, Rog said: Bercow redefined the scope and responsibilities that are the the basis of the role of Mr Speaker. BoJo is showing that he is the very best PM since Mrs Thatcher. A major, if not THE major role of a Prime Minister is to demonstrate a duty of care to ALL citizens of the UK. The outpourings of sheer hatred and disgust at her demise by a large part of the UK population demonstrated all too clearly how Thatcher completely failed in this crucial role as a leader. Her legacy was a country polarised by her toxic policies. Now brexit has polarised the country as well only along different faultlines. Can totally amoral narcissistic serial philanderer and inveterate liar Boris Johnson, our actual Prime Minister, generate more venom than Thatcher with his totally stupid and completely unnecessary Brexit? You know what, I believe he can. But you won't see it foment until probably 2021 at the earliest.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 hour ago, P.K. said: A major, if not THE major role of a Prime Minister is to demonstrate a duty of care to ALL citizens of the UK. The outpourings of sheer hatred and disgust at her demise by a large part of the UK population demonstrated all too clearly how Thatcher completely failed in this crucial role as a leader. Her legacy was a country polarised by her toxic policies. Now brexit has polarised the country as well only along different faultlines. Can totally amoral narcissistic serial philanderer and inveterate liar Boris Johnson, our actual Prime Minister, generate more venom than Thatcher with his totally stupid and completely unnecessary Brexit? You know what, I believe he can. But you won't see it foment until probably 2021 at the earliest.... It's not BREXIT that polarised the UK population, it's those demonstrating the Stockholm syndrome and those who want freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Non-Believer said: When we're dealing with an equally nasty fascist outlook it's bound to sooner or later. I sincerely doubt if most people know what fascism is. They confuse national pride with fascism though the two are actually poles apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 12 minutes ago, Rog said: It's not BREXIT that polarised the UK population, it's those demonstrating the Stockholm syndrome and those who want freedom. BS. Freedom from what? Being ground under the iron heel of the EU? Stuff and nonsense. All the central planks of your precious brexit have been roundly and soundly rubbished time and time again. Notice you didn't try and defend the indefensible that was Thatcher's tenure. Very sensible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 13 minutes ago, P.K. said: BS. Freedom from what? Being ground under the iron heel of the EU? Stuff and nonsense. All the central planks of your precious brexit have been roundly and soundly rubbished time and time again. Notice you didn't try and defend the indefensible that was Thatcher's tenure. Very sensible... The government of Mrs Thatcher saved the UK from total collapse and cut the power of the traitorous trade unions. She and her government did what had to be done. Like a surgeon cutting out a malignancy there was initially pain but the patient recovered and thrived. Thank goodness the idiom "cometh the hour cometh the man" came true again and we have BoJo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, P.K. said: BS. Freedom from what? Being ground under the iron heel of the EU? Stuff and nonsense. All the central planks of your precious brexit have been roundly and soundly rubbished time and time again. Notice you didn't try and defend the indefensible that was Thatcher's tenure. Very sensible... I will come to the defence of Thatcher and the Brexit decision. 1. Thatcher, having won three elections with the biggest majorities in UK history is a winner. She was, as a matter of fact not conjecture, a massive winner, not a loser. Corbyn, Foot, Kinnock, Brown and Miliband were losers - The five of them did not win an election between them, Thatcher won three on her own. 2. Brexit, with the biggest positive vote for anything in UK voting history is a winner. You, fighting against Thatcher, Fighting against Brexit, and having lost both (big, big, style) are a Loser You cannot compute that, you cannot get that, you cannot accept that. That is why, and because, you are a loser. Tell your kids that - you introduced them into the discussion, not me. Tell them, why every political forecast you make always puts you on the losing side! I don't want to rub it in, I really don't, but don't tell me that Thatcher and Brexiteers are losers and you are a winner when the very opposite is true. You lost, you are are loser, change horses or get over it. I'm guessing that you will now attack me personally rather than dealing with the above facts. Take the invective out of it, make it a simple betting company analysis, you claim that Thatcher is a loser (even with the benefit of hindsight!!!) when she was a massive electoral winner (proven).You claim that Brexiteers are losers when facts show them to be the winners. What odds would you get from a bettng company for your claim that Thatcher and Brexiteers are losers and Corbyn plus Remainers are in fact winners. Are you mad? It is indeed possible to deny certain truths for a while, but eventually the actual truth will out. Thatcher was a winner not a loser, Remainers have lost. A sensible man would go quietly into the night. Edited January 19, 2020 by Manximus Aururaneus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 3 hours ago, Non-Believer said: Adolf had a similar philosophy.... Lots of dickheads do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Manximus Aururaneus said: I will come to the defence of Thatcher and the Brexit decision. 1. Thatcher, having won three elections with the biggest majorities in UK history is a winner. She was, as a matter of fact not conjecture, a massive winner, not a loser. Corbyn, Foot, Kinnock, Brown and Miliband were losers - The five of them did not win an election between them, Thatcher won three on her own. 2. Brexit, with the biggest positive vote for anything in UK voting history is a winner. You, fighting against Thatcher, Fighting against Brexit, and having lost both (big, big, style) are a Loser You cannot compute that, you cannot get that, you cannot accept that. That is why, and because, you are a loser. Tell your kids that - you introduced them into the discussion, not me. Tell them, why every political forecast you make always puts you on the losing side! I don't want to rub it in, I really don't, but don't tell me that Thatcher and Brexiteers are losers and you are a winner when the very opposite is true. You lost, you are are loser, change horses or get over it. I'm guessing that you will now attack me personally rather than dealing with the above facts. Take the invective out of it, make it a simple betting company analysis, you claim that Thatcher is a loser (even with the benefit of hindsight!!!) when she was a massive electoral winner (proven).You claim that Brexiteers are losers when facts show them to be the winners. What odds would you get from a bettng company for your claim that Thatcher and Brexiteers are losers and Corbyn plus Remainers are in fact winners. Are you mad? It is indeed possible to deny certain truths for a while, but eventually the actual truth will out. Thatcher was a winner not a loser, Remainers have lost. A sensible man would go quietly into the night. Thatchers stupid policies precipitated the Falklands Conflict. For that and that alone she should be forever condemned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Manximus Aururaneus said: Thatcher was a winner not a loser, Remainers have lost. A sensible man would go quietly into the night. Does being a winner make you right? Before you answer please remember that Blair also won elections so by your definition is a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Quote 1. Thatcher, having won three elections with the biggest majorities in UK history is a winner. No, Blair's 1997 majority was bigger and was the biggest since the 30s. Quote Brexit, with the biggest positive vote for anything in UK voting history is a winner. Define biggest. Absolute number? Reg voters corrected number? Winners percentage? General elections or just comparable referendums? Sticking to referendums: 1. Absolute number? Yes, just, by about 130,000 over the 1975 referendum however there an additional 6.4m registered voters in 2016 compared to 1975 2. Reg voters corrected number? No. 1975 bigger win by about 2.3m 3. Percentage on winning side? No 51.9% in 2016, 67% in 1975 If you want to consider turnout, the 2014 Scottish referendum was by far the highest at 84% and there were more people voting in the 1992 GE than the referendum 2016 referendum a win for leave? Of course it was... but do you really think patriotic remainers are going to "change horses"? That would be validating your choice and diluting your responsibility should all this goes tits up in the medium term. I pray it won't but I wouldn't bet my house on it and I doubt whether you would either. Just sayin' (unlike you who still hasn't justified why my question to Rog yesterday was somehow a lie or what my family had to do with that question.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 12 hours ago, Rog said: I sincerely doubt if most people know what fascism is. They confuse national pride with fascism though the two are actually poles apart. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Blair was indeed a winner - because as he himself confirms, he admired and copied Thatcher. Cameron in turn admired and copied Blair, it was a winning formula (albeit watered down with each transition) and Boris has now pretty much gone back to Thatcher (though is less business orientated). It points out, in a crystal clear fashion, just where the political consensus in the UK lies. It is neither extreme left or extreme right. Remainers expecting to remain objectors to Brexit, continue to oppose and fight it, and then expect Brexit aims to be aligned to provide an outcome that suits their desires are in for disappointment - Brexiteers have no intention whatever of conducting the process in a manner best aligned to the aims of those opposing it - sorry. Brexit will be orientated towards the outcome that the Brexiteers wish for, not the outcome that remainers wish for - anyone choosing continued opposition to it is going to end up moaning for the rest of their days. Thatcher gained a majority of 144 in the 1983 election and 109 in the 1987 election - both after the Falklands war had been conducted and therefore taken into account by the electorate. Sorry for introducing facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said: Brexit will be orientated towards the outcome that the Brexiteers wish for... Yes, lets run the country to the whims of 17.4 million, a country with a population of 66.8 million. Can't see that having issues down the line... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said: Brexit will be orientated towards the outcome that the Brexiteers wish for. Brexiteers cannot agree on what they actually want beyond leaving the EU. There are still divisions amongst brexiteers on what the future relationship should be. For reference see Nigel Farage's complaint regarding the withdrawal agreement made by Boris Johnson. I expect these divisions amongst brexiteers to come to the fore over the next 10 months. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 9 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Brexiteers cannot agree on what they actually want beyond leaving the EU. That have something to do with the fact the majority of those voting for Brexit had no bloody clue what Brexit was, what it was for or what the outcome of a Brexit would be. A blind leap into the dark with 17.4 miliion different desired outcomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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