Rog Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, mojomonkey said: Your explanation for not letting under 25's legally vote was that they lacked life experience. You don't want first generation immigrants voting because, well you never really properly explained that one. Why would I need to offer an alternative? The current situation of anyone over the age of 18 who is legally entitled to being allowed to vote is long established and perfectly valid. You appear to be one having a problem with anyone who has different opinion to your own. That was funny! My explanation for excluding first generation immigrants was perfectly clear. There would be a high probability that they would vote based not on the good of the UK but their own vested interest. BREXIT supporters had a vested interest too. The good of the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, Rog said: That was funny! My explanation for excluding first generation immigrants was perfectly clear. There would be a high probability that they would vote based not on the good of the UK but their own vested interest. BREXIT supporters had a vested interest too. The good of the UK. Other than your own opinion do you have an actual evidence that first generation immigrants would vote based on their own vested interest not on the good of the UK? I really cannot see how you could have any but I'm all ears if you have actual evidence. You appear to effectively be making the direct opposite but nevertheless the same argument that some do that many leave voters were racist. I do not believe that and in my opinion anyone with a legal right to vote should be entitled to vote. Restricting that right is an extreme view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, mojomonkey said: Other than your own opinion do you have an actual evidence that first generation immigrants would vote based on their own vested interest not on the good of the UK? I really cannot see how you could have any but I'm all ears if you have actual evidence. You appear to effectively be making the direct opposite but nevertheless the same argument that some do that many leave voters were racist. I do not believe that and in my opinion anyone with a legal right to vote should be entitled to vote. Restricting that right is an extreme view. The referendum results from the UK as a whole clearly show that areas with a high immigrant population mostly had a high "remain" result so go figure. As for having suffrage there is no reason why in the case of an exceptional event which the referendum certainly was should have the same qualifications as for run of the mill public elections and because of the massive importance that the qualification should not be based on age alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, mojomonkey said: Other than your own opinion do you have an actual evidence that first generation immigrants would vote based on their own vested interest not on the good of the UK? I really cannot see how you could have any but I'm all ears if you have actual evidence. You appear to effectively be making the direct opposite but nevertheless the same argument that some do that many leave voters were racist. I do not believe that and in my opinion anyone with a legal right to vote should be entitled to vote. Restricting that right is an extreme view. The Rog character plays the "I'm Jewish" schtick, but can't see the irony of demonising a particular section of society, wanting to change the laws of the land to restrict and hinder that section of society...thin end of the wedge stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 46 minutes ago, Rog said: I SUGGESTED that IMO the referendum qualification age should have been restricted and explained why. Extreme views? Everybody has views that others find not main stream or even extreme in some way. Where's the problem? Are we not to be allowed to express them without being vilified by ad-hom responses? Criticise the views or opinions fine! Offer alternatives great! But to simply go for the jugular? Not in my opinion. You can't call for an entire nation yo be turned into nuclear glass and complain about being attacked for your views. Get a grip you total sausage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said: The Rog character plays the "I'm Jewish" schtick, but can't see the irony of demonising a particular section of society, wanting to change the laws of the land to restrict and hinder that section of society...thin end of the wedge stuff Oh here we go. Richard, once again you're not comparing apples and apples. Indeed you're trying to compare apples with cinder blocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 24 minutes ago, Rog said: The referendum results from the UK as a whole clearly show that areas with a high immigrant population mostly had a high "remain" result so go figure. I asked for evidence of that first generation immigrants would vote based on their own vested interest not on the good of the UK. A rational human would accept that one person's perception of what is good for the UK could be totally different to someone else's. Logically, you cannot simply say that having a high remain result in an area with a high immigrant population is proof of voting based on vested self interest. Setting that aside, pretty much apart from London your theory does not actually tally with the results. Places such as the Midlands and Yorkshire have high immigrant populations and clearly voted leave. 28 minutes ago, Rog said: As for having suffrage there is no reason why in the case of an exceptional event which the referendum certainly was should have the same qualifications as for run of the mill public elections and because of the massive importance that the qualification should not be based on age alone. Rog, do you want to live in a democratic society or not? You cannot ignore democracy and tailor voting rights to give the exact result that you or any other group wants. There are plenty of people (left, right and centre) that I do not share views with but I would never advocate removing their democratic right to express their view. Restricting voting rights is extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: You can't call for an entire nation yo be turned into nuclear glass and complain about being attacked for your views. Get a grip you total sausage. Where did I CALL for an entire nation to be turned into Trinitite? NB - CALL for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Rog said: Where did I CALL for an entire nation to be turned into Trinitite? NB - CALL for it. Taken from the Iran thread: On 1/10/2020 at 4:32 PM, Rog said: Nah. Don't invade, just turn the whole rotten place into alamogordo glass. It would say so much more than any amount of words ever could. Edited January 21, 2020 by mojomonkey sphellin 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, mojomonkey said: Taking from the Iran thread: inbound waffling nonsense defence in 3..2..1.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, mojomonkey said: I asked for evidence of that first generation immigrants would vote based on their own vested interest not on the good of the UK. A rational human would accept that one person's perception of what is good for the UK could be totally different to someone else's. Logically, you cannot simply say that having a high remain result in an area with a high immigrant population is proof of voting based on vested self interest. Setting that aside, pretty much apart from London your theory does not actually tally with the results. Places such as the Midlands and Yorkshire have high immigrant populations and clearly voted leave. Rog, do you want to live in a democratic society or not? You cannot ignore democracy and tailor voting rights to give the exact result that you or any other group wants. There are plenty of people (left, right and centre) that I do not share views with but I would never advocate removing their democratic right to express their view. Restricting voting rights is extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, mojomonkey said: Taken from the Iran thread: That is not CALLING for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Just now, Rog said: That is not CALLING for anything. Called it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Just now, RIchard Britten said: Called it... Richard old son, try to read what is written, not what you WANT to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) @Manximus I'd be perfectly happy for the island to have freedom of movement along the principles of, say, Spain. The right there is to stay, simply as a visitor, for 90 days. More than that, you must apply and receive paperwork to stay. That right is dependent on your ability to prove medical insurance and adequate income to survive without resorting to their welfare. That means working or being rich enough or being past your state's pensionable age. There is an indirect ID system there called NIE. It is technically possible to live without it but it would be a very simple life probably eg selling handbags to tourists on Marbella sea front.. E.g. I ordered just a tyre from Euromaster yesterday and that was only possible by quoting my NIE. Anything official requires NIE. Renting or buying property requires NIE. Note Spain is an EU member state, yet we want to leave because the EU allegedly forces us to accept migrants that are not accepted by Spain. What's wrong with all that unless you have other agenda? Edited January 21, 2020 by ballaughbiker + or being past pensionable age 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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