So the UK is finished says Theresa Mayhem

[Freggyragh]

6 hours ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

Biker, you, Mojomonkey and even Teapot are at least capable of rational debate even though we disagree (unlike some other posters on here).

There is however, one aspect of this that I keep repeating but that no remainer has yet accepted.

There is an expectation amongst the remain camp, that Brexiteers will now have to deliver a result that is stipulated by, assessed by, and ultimately judged by Remainers to see if it meets their requirements.

It has yet to dawn on (but soon will) remainers, that the result will be set to satisfy leavers, on their terms, not remainer terms. When remainers lost, they indeed truly lost, they are no longer the stipulators, the assessors, or the judges.

We are no longer striving for remain, we are no longer striving for BRINO, we are no longer seeking a result that remainers would judge as 'good' or even 'satisfactory'.

You could have chosen compromise, you chose not to, sleep in the bed you made, it is now Brexit for the Brexiteers. Sorry.

The Political elite has been shown to be the Political Stupid. That's where condescension towards the electorate gets you.

 

You are brainwashed. Get help. 

[P.K.]

On 1/23/2020 at 10:50 AM, manxman1980 said:

That said Brexit has overshadowed the scandal of many ex-forces personnel becoming homeless and living on the street.  The UK Government really should do more to help people leaving the armed forces and certainly should not allow them to go homeless.

Just "Business As Usual" for the tory party.

Veterans' charity Combat Stress stops new referrals over funding crisis

A leading mental health charity for military veterans says it will not be able to take any new cases in England and Wales, because of a funding crisis.

Combat Stress said its income has fallen from £16m to £10m in the current financial year partly due to cuts in NHS funding support.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51243098

[ballaughbiker]

Quote

It has yet to dawn on (but soon will) remainers, that the result will be set to satisfy leavers, on their terms, not remainer terms. When remainers lost, they indeed truly lost, they are no longer the stipulators, the assessors, or the judges.

Are you seriously suggesting that only brexiters are to be the final arbiters of the mess they initiated? 

Y'know... the 26% of the UK population that wanted it? Nobody else has the right to a view on its success or failure?

That is one hell of a delusion. 

[Manximus Aururaneus]

6 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said:

Are you seriously suggesting that only brexiters are to be the final arbiters of the mess they initiated? 

Y'know... the 26% of the UK population that wanted it? Nobody else has the right to a view on its success or failure?

That is one hell of a delusion. 

Err no....

What I'm suggesting is that Brexit is now going to happen without regard to the diktats of the BBC, Gina Miller, and the House of Lords etc. i.e. 'The Establishment'

But you lot tried to overrule the referendum, tried to cancel brexit using every trick in the book - and now you honestly, genuinely, think that we are going to bend over backwards to address your concerns, to satisfy your requirements, to produce a brexit to a plan designed by you.

Dream on, you can have as much right to your view as you wish, but we will be giving as much notice to your views as you haven given us for the past four years. You could have respected the referendum and chose to work together on making a success of it, instead you chose to fight it (you are still doing so) - but then you want us to keep checking in with you to see if you approve of things - well you don't get to have it both ways I'm afraid.

Watch the events at 2300 next Friday to see who's 'delusional' and 'brainwashed'.

Not only did you fail to win the argument, you cannot even accept the loss gracefully.

[TheTeapot]

Just backs up my point.

[manxman1980]

1 hour ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

Watch the events at 2300 next Friday to see who's 'delusional' and 'brainwashed'.

There will be a lot of noise from Brexiteers but the next morning it will be business as usual thanks to the transition period.

It will be 11.00pm on the 31 December when the real truth will unfold.

[ballaughbiker]

Quote

But you lot tried to overrule the referendum, tried to cancel brexit using every trick in the book - and now you honestly, genuinely, think that we are going to bend over backwards to address your concerns, to satisfy your requirements, to produce a brexit to a plan designed by you.

The plan? Hmm brexit plans eh?  If only  the 'gov' had had a plan in June 2016. Remember immediately after "the win" the look of horror on the face of Gove and Bozo because they knew nothing had been planned.

Since that time it has been a mish-mash of incoherent policy to try and construct something/anything that would placate the baying masses whilst not taking the country to the edge. Since then we have had various charlatans telling us there, there it will be fine, the whole world is waiting. Voters who had never even run the likes of a whelk stall suddenly believed they were experts in world trade because of the new phrase that they had just heard called WTO. They are just at the first Dunning-Kruger peak and the politicians know that is a good place for them to get something/anything over the line before being found out.

Others who like me readily admitted the knew f.all about world trade but started to read acknowledged world trade experts who painted a dim picture and still do. Now acknowledging that instead of cheering  and celebrating some pyrrhic victory in a politically constructed mythical war is not disrespecting the referendum result or its supporters. It is just being realistic about the true situation we are now in yet you talk about "gracefully loosing". 

If there were definable benefits that made life better for the majority, I'd be right behind brexit despite my initial stance. Everyone not dishonest or deluded really knows that definable benefits are in very short supply but if they keep saying "just believe"...who knows it might be all right 

Nothing will seem to alter until next December. Bozo knows that and his boss Dom will have plenty of initial good news stuff ready to be deployed. After December all delusions will be called out over the following few years and if those who 'have lent' Bozo their vote end up with less,as predicted, it will not be pleasant. The truth will out before the end of this parliament's term no matter how much jubilation and partying and jeering you do next Friday.

Those voters who have 'lent their vote' for the first time in their lives are the ones that you have to satisfy. Not remainers. The argument has a very long way to go before anyone can consider it 'won'. 2300 Friday is just the start not the finish.

 

Edited January 26, 2020 by ballaughbiker

[ballaughbiker]

Quote

US trade deal, watch this space

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-51250235

 

Jeez, the yanks must be celebrating already.  Talk about a sitting duck. 

[Manximus Aururaneus]

31 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said:

The plan? Hmm brexit plans eh?  If only  the 'gov' had had a plan in June 2016. Remember immediately after "the win" the look of horror on the face of Gove and Bozo because they knew nothing had been planned.

Since that time it has been a mish-mash of incoherent policy to try and construct something/anything that would placate the baying masses whilst not taking the country to the edge. Since then we have had various charlatans telling us there, there it will be fine, the whole world is waiting. Voters who had never even run the likes of a whelk stall suddenly believed they were experts in world trade because of the new phrase that they had just heard called WTO. They are just at the first Dunning-Kruger peak and the politicians know that is a good place for them to get something/anything over the line before being found out.

Others who like me readily admitted the knew f.all about world trade but started to read acknowledged world trade experts who painted a dim picture and still do. Now acknowledging that instead of cheering  and celebrating some pyrrhic victory in a politically constructed mythical war is not disrespecting the referendum result or its supporters. It is just being realistic about the true situation we are now in yet you talk about "gracefully loosing". 

If there were definable benefits that made life better for the majority, I'd be right behind brexit despite my initial stance. Everyone not dishonest or deluded really knows that definable benefits are in very short supply but if they keep saying "just believe"...who knows it might be all right 

Nothing will seem to alter until next December. Bozo knows that and his boss Dom will have plenty of initial good news stuff ready to be deployed. After December all delusions will be called out over the following few years and if those who 'have lent' Bozo their vote end up with less,as predicted, it will not be pleasant. The truth will out before the end of this parliament's term no matter how much jubilation and partying and jeering you do next Friday.

Those voters who have 'lent their vote' for the first time in their lives are the ones that you have to satisfy. Not remainers. The argument has a very long way to go before anyone can consider it 'won'. 2300 Friday is just the start not the finish.

 

You don't realise it but posts like this are demonstrating my point.

Your post, based on trade is a perfectly legitimate argument. PK posts mainly on immigration (sometimes trade) which matters to him. For others it is 'Sovereignty'.

But in four years, nobody, but nobody has even asked what matters to me - and on each occasion that I have tried to explain, I have been cut off by people using terms like Racist, Nationalist, Little Englander, Populist, Stupid, Naive, uneducated etc. etc. Those terms have not been used to argue against my point of view - but have been used to describe my point of view before I have even been given a chance to explain what my point of view was. For four years I have been told (not asked) what my motives for brexit were.

I do indeed have views on trade, immigration and sovereignty - but none of those issues are my main reason for wanting to leave the EU.

Now I am being told that the same people are going to judge the success or failure of Brexit (and by implication me) on the same issues - none of which were or are, my prime motives for leaving. Which is why I have arrived at the position of not caring what they think. I feel sad about that, but they don't believe this either. 

The cricket is going very well.

 

 

 

[P.K.]

1 hour ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

You don't realise it but posts like this are demonstrating my point.

Your post, based on trade is a perfectly legitimate argument. PK posts mainly on immigration (sometimes trade) which matters to him. For others it is 'Sovereignty'.

But in four years, nobody, but nobody has even asked what matters to me - and on each occasion that I have tried to explain, I have been cut off by people using terms like Racist, Nationalist, Little Englander, Populist, Stupid, Naive, uneducated etc. etc. Those terms have not been used to argue against my point of view - but have been used to describe my point of view before I have even been given a chance to explain what my point of view was. For four years I have been told (not asked) what my motives for brexit were.

I do indeed have views on trade, immigration and sovereignty - but none of those issues are my main reason for wanting to leave the EU.

Now I am being told that the same people are going to judge the success or failure of Brexit (and by implication me) on the same issues - none of which were or are, my prime motives for leaving. Which is why I have arrived at the position of not caring what they think. I feel sad about that, but they don't believe this either. 

The cricket is going very well.

"But in four years, nobody, but nobody has even asked what matters to me - and on each occasion that I have tried to explain, I have been cut off by people using terms like Racist, Nationalist, Little Englander, Populist, Stupid, Naive, uneducated etc. etc. Those terms have not been used to argue against my point of view - but have been used to describe my point of view before I have even been given a chance to explain what my point of view was. For four years I have been told (not asked) what my motives for brexit were."

I don't believe a word of this. This is the person who was browbeating another poster on here to part with £1000 and a very unedifying spectacle it was to. Especially as it gave me the distinct impression that the underlying motivation was simply to puff their own ego.

"Your post, based on trade is a perfectly legitimate argument. PK posts mainly on immigration (sometimes trade) which matters to him. For others it is 'Sovereignty'."

This is rich from the person who whinges about putting folks in boxes.

The things which matter to me the most are that in straightened times it's always those with the least who suffer the most and all the lies that may end up putting the UK into recession and those at the bottom into real hardship. The biggest lies being "sovereignty", "immigration" and "future trade". 

I do not intend to judge the success or otherwise of brexit on "sovereignty" because we never lost it and "immigration" which will continue at a similar rate because UK PLC needs it to. Although the real joke on all those who want shot of Johnny Foreigner is that EU citizens working in the UK contribute more to the public purse per head than the indigenous population. One of the best things about EU membership is the ability to move on and work elsewhere with the minimum of fuss. That's what the EU folks in the UK are doing. These people are being replaced by non-EU folks whose sole aim, unlike EU citizens, is to settle here permanently. What an absolute classic and in both feet too!

As to "The easiest deals in history" (Fox) and "We're going to get a great deal" (Johnson) it's wait and see mode. But that will be my measure - trade and resultant GDP. Since the Maastricht Treaty the UK has recorded a growth of GDP of something like 125%. Knocking France back from second to third place in the EU ratings. In other words the UK has absolutely thrived in the EU. So let's see if Brexit can match it....

Incidentally for all those who think making deals with the US is just around the corner you need to listen to this recorded the other day https://youtu.be/cHzCtULFavI

There's a reason the US will not move until the UK's future relationship in the EU is nailed down....

ETA: Not sure about not enforcing the follow on. But that would have been Stuart Broad's decision.

Edited January 26, 2020 by P.K.

[Manximus Aururaneus]

33 minutes ago, P.K. said:

"But in four years, nobody, but nobody has even asked what matters to me - and on each occasion that I have tried to explain, I have been cut off by people using terms like Racist, Nationalist, Little Englander, Populist, Stupid, Naive, uneducated etc. etc. Those terms have not been used to argue against my point of view - but have been used to describe my point of view before I have even been given a chance to explain what my point of view was. For four years I have been told (not asked) what my motives for brexit were."

I don't believe a word of this. This is the person who was browbeating another poster on here to part with £1000 and a very unedifying spectacle it was to. Especially as it gave me the distinct impression that the underlying motivation was simply to puff their own ego.

"Your post, based on trade is a perfectly legitimate argument. PK posts mainly on immigration (sometimes trade) which matters to him. For others it is 'Sovereignty'."

This is rich from the person who whinges about putting folks in boxes.

The things which matter to me the most are that in straightened times it's always those with the least who suffer the most and all the lies that may end up putting the UK into recession and those at the bottom into real hardship. The biggest lies being "sovereignty", "immigration" and "future trade". 

I do not intend to judge the success or otherwise of brexit on "sovereignty" because we never lost it and "immigration" which will continue at a similar rate because UK PLC needs it to. Although the real joke on all those who want shot of Johnny Foreigner is that EU citizens working in the UK contribute more to the public purse per head than the indigenous population. One of the best things about EU membership is the ability to move on and work elsewhere with the minimum of fuss. That's what the EU folks in the UK are doing. These people are being replaced by non-EU folks whose sole aim, unlike EU citizens, is to settle here permanently. What an absolute classic and in both feet too!

As to "The easiest deals in history" (Fox) and "We're going to get a great deal" (Johnson) it's wait and see mode. But that will be my measure - trade and resultant GDP. Since the Maastricht Treaty the UK has recorded a growth of GDP of something like 125%. Knocking France back from second to third place in the EU ratings. In other words the UK has absolutely thrived in the EU. So let's see if Brexit can match it....

Incidentally for all those who think making deals with the US is just around the corner you need to listen to this recorded the other day https://youtu.be/cHzCtULFavI

There's a reason the US will not move until the UK's future relationship in the EU is nailed down....

ETA: Not sure about not enforcing the follow on. But that would have been Stuart Broad's decision.

You're like the driver of a Eurostar stopped in Calais. From you high leather seat you glance over your control and instruments, then you look up through the windscreen at the bright lights of Lille, Amsterdam and Paris wondering where to take your trainload of of dumb leave voters next. 

You have yet to realise that control of the train has been switched to the other end and that upon departure your controls are defunct, your steering wheel is a plastic imitation stuck on with a rubber sucker, and that Amsterdam, Lille and Paris will be receding from view under the control of the new driver at the other end. Sit back, enjoy the ride, and shout out 'Brum Brum' whenever you feel the need.

Pity about Ben Stokes.

[P.K.]

7 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

You're like the driver of a Eurostar stopped in Calais. From you high leather seat you glance over your control and instruments, then you look up through the windscreen at the bright lights of Lille, Amsterdam and Paris wondering where to take your trainload of of dumb leave voters next. 

You have yet to realise that control of the train has been switched to the other end and that upon departure your controls are defunct, your steering wheel is a plastic imitation stuck on with a rubber sucker, and that Amsterdam, Lille and Paris will be receding from view under the control of the new driver at the other end. Sit back, enjoy the ride, and shout out 'Brum Brum' whenever you feel the need.

Pathetic.

[Manximus Aururaneus]

1 minute ago, P.K. said:

Pathetic.

Agreed. 

I'm bored now.

[P.K.]

5 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

Agreed. 

I'm bored now.

How do you think the rest of us feel....?

SA Tests - 12, 22, 29, 23, 1, 20, 8 - I suspect Buttler will be dropped.

 

[manxman1980]

27 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

You have yet to realise that control of the train has been switched to the other end and that upon departure your controls are defunct, your steering wheel is a plastic imitation stuck on with a rubber sucker, and that Amsterdam, Lille and Paris will be receding from view under the control of the new driver at the other end. Sit back, enjoy the ride, and shout out 'Brum Brum' whenever you feel the need.

I don't think you understand how trains work... 

Also the Eurostar is electric so doesn't go 'brum brum'.