So the UK is finished says Theresa Mayhem

[Non-Believer]

Just now, woolley said:

That's OK. But one day you are going to elect a Parliament that's full of preening useless tossers. Then what?

IoM's been doing it for years....

[woolley]

4 hours ago, P.K. said:

Believe me Roger I'm not whinging.

God help us if you start.

[woolley]

4 hours ago, mojomonkey said:

Found them - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade-agreements-with-non-eu-countries

 

Some economic powerhouses in that list. Still, it's early days, I'm sure better is still to come. There's even a new Chancellor of the Exchequer as of today to help things along.

So you think UK is only going to trade with those countries? Too much Project Fear consumption.

[woolley]

3 hours ago, P.K. said:

Hardly.

Just pointing out the facts where folks may have "misunderstood" them shall we say.

Take The Maybot. I don't like her, particularly after her really quite appalling "hostile environment" and the resulting Windrush scandal. But there's no denying her WA, courtesy of Olly Robbins and Sabine Weyand, was better than the cut-and-paste Johnson effort.

That's politics. She was an unlucky politician. She had a Parliament full of loons who thought they could overturn the referendum result. She called an election and ran a shocking campaign, finishing up beholden to the DUP. Johnson is a lucky politician. He's teflon. Was saved from the backslider Parliament by the treachery of Gove. Galvanised the party in his leadership campaign and the country in the election. Transformed Parliament, and purged virtually all of the sourest Remainers. Even the appalling Bercow saw the writing on the wall and departed as Speaker, further improving the atmosphere. It's funny now seeing him whining about them trying to stop him getting a peerage. I hope he stews for a very long time.

The WA and its contents are immaterial to the ebbs and flows of political fortune.

[Non-Believer]

11 minutes ago, woolley said:

Is should never have allowed its engineering base to decline so much.

But this is a problem. It HAS. We're no longer a huge manufacturing and engineering power. Some niche such as defence we do well in. But the likes of Japan, U.S. and now massively China have the bases well covered. It will be a huge and lengthy operation to reinstate Britain as a manufacturing power. If ever and at what cost? And then you've got to crack the markets against established opposition.

Still, as Rog says, Brazil's got a 200M strong market to replace the EU. We can sell them all cast iron Wenlock woodburners to burn the Amazon in. 

[woolley]

1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

Then the UK is more screwed than anybody could have possibly previously realised.

It couldn't possibly be more screwed than PR, Freggy, Richard, et al have been telling us it is on here.

[woolley]

5 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

But this is a problem. It HAS. We're no longer a huge manufacturing and engineering power. Some niche such as defence we do well in. But the likes of Japan, U.S. and now massively China have the bases well covered. It will be a huge and lengthy operation to reinstate Britain as a manufacturing power. If ever and at what cost? And then you've got to crack the markets against established opposition.

Still, as Rog says, Brazil's got a 200M strong market to replace the EU. We can sell them all cast iron Wenlock woodburners to burn the Amazon in. 

And Germany, of course, although it is now having a struggle against China etc.

We do have some niche manufacturing that is world class, and wonderful scientific r&d, but heavy industry is finished. It would take a huge effort by government to turn it around. It could be done through inward and home sourced investment with the right incentives (we are a hugely rich country), and would be possible outside of EU constraints, but it wouldn't fit the carbon neutral by 2050 agenda. It's a service economy now.

[Freggyragh]

EU trade constraints??? FFS, you know fine well the U.K. is never going to come close to the trading position of the EU. You’ve been peddling the ‘sovereignty’ line you can’t explain for years - look at the trade agreements the U.K. actually has nearly fours years into negotiations and weep. You can peddle ‘sovereignty’, racism, tax avoidance for the financial elite, an end to pensions and socialised healthcare, a move away from agriculture and manufacturing, a rebalancing of the UK’s reliance on services, or whatever, but talking about EU trade constraints compared to what’s coming for whatever’s left of the U.K. - well, even for you, that’s out there. 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Freggyragh

[Freggyragh]

Next we’ll be hearing about the benefits of a blue passport and how queuing and form-filling is fun. 

[woolley]

30 minutes ago, Freggyragh said:

EU trade constraints??? FFS, you know fine well the U.K. is never going to come close to the trading position of the EU. You’ve been peddling the ‘sovereignty’ line you can’t explain for years - look at the trade agreements the U.K. actually has nearly fours years into negotiations and weep. You can peddle ‘sovereignty’, racism, tax avoidance for the financial elite, an end to pensions and socialised healthcare, a move away from agriculture and manufacturing, a rebalancing of the UK’s reliance on services, or whatever, but talking about EU trade constraints compared to what’s coming for whatever’s left of the U.K. - well, even for you, that’s out there. 

I didn't say trade constraints. I thought it was obvious in context that I was referring to state aid constraints. The sovereignty issue has been explained repeatedly. You simply don't understand the concept. I think you need to relax as you seem to be getting a little angry with that bilge about an end to pensions and socialised healthcare. It's verging on gibberish.

[P.K.]

1 hour ago, woolley said:

That's politics. She was an unlucky politician. She had a Parliament full of loons who thought they could overturn the referendum result. She called an election and ran a shocking campaign, finishing up beholden to the DUP. Johnson is a lucky politician. He's teflon. Was saved from the backslider Parliament by the treachery of Gove. Galvanised the party in his leadership campaign and the country in the election. Transformed Parliament, and purged virtually all of the sourest Remainers. Even the appalling Bercow saw the writing on the wall and departed as Speaker, further improving the atmosphere. It's funny now seeing him whining about them trying to stop him getting a peerage. I hope he stews for a very long time.

The WA and its contents are immaterial to the ebbs and flows of political fortune.

She was unlucky in that the divisions in the tory party, which have been there for years over Europe, united to vote down her deal. Which even you admitted was about as good as it was going to get.

Totally amoral narcissistic serial philanderer and inveterate liar Boris Johnson is as populist as they come. Reducing complex issues into brainless soundbites and promising all sorts without a second thought as to whether they were affordable or deliverable because to him it doesn't matter. After years of unnecessary austerity Johnson et al blamed the EU and put brexit forward as the ticket to salvation. 

Unfortunately we now have a populist narcissist having to face reality. Of course, if it all bellies up he will blame the EU. After all, it already worked for the referendum so no doubt it will work a second time. Can't fault the logic.

The other day in the European Parliament the President of the European Commission (for those that don't know that's the biggest market for UK goods on the planet that's sitting right on our doorstep that we're leaving) was openly mocking Boris Johnson, our actual Prime Minister, because he was saying that the UK would happily accept a deal with the EU that was the same that Australia had with the EU.

Only Australia doesn't have a trade deal with the EU. It's all on WTO terms that any Entity could have.

Notwithstanding that Johnson was talking pure bollox it should be extremely worrying that he is being openly mocked on the world stage which is an indicator of just how low the esteem of the UK has sunk due to brexit and Johnson.

The best thing Dominic Cummings could do is stand at Johnson's shoulder and constantly tell him " Remember you are mortal. Remember you are mortal. Remember you are mortal. Remember....."

[P.K.]

7 hours ago, sir nige said:

ursula von der leyen?  eu?

its the boris show......he is accountable to the electorate........and he can get removed if he fails........unlike your unelected dictators......

You must be referring to Dominic Cummings.

He's unelected....

[mojomonkey]

7 hours ago, woolley said:

So you think UK is only going to trade with those countries? Too much Project Fear consumption.

Firstly, the countries in that list are fact, there is no project fear about that. Would you class any of them as particularly impressive? Secondly, and more importantly, I recognised in the very next sentence that it is still early days and stated my believe that better is still to come. I may not always agree with you woolley but I have pretty much always found you to be fair in your commenting, please don't attribute things to me that I have not said or expressed.

 

Notwithstanding the above, as I have previously said I find this whole project fear a poor get out excuse for things. The majority of those who voted in the referendum voted leave, that decision was correctly followed and the UK has now left. Now is the time for the UK to stop looking for excuses, it is now the time to step up and get the work done. The UK needs proper deals with proper countries (Rog, that's the whole World not just EU member states before you go off on one).

[mojomonkey]

8 hours ago, woolley said:

That's OK. But one day you are going to elect a Parliament that's full of preening useless tossers. Then what?

I think the day of a Parliament full of preening useless tossers happened years ago. Virtually all MPs (all sides) seem to go into it for self centered reasons, I struggle to think of many with actual real principles.

Edited February 14, 2020 by mojomonkey

[Rog]

11 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

Then the UK is more screwed than anybody could have possibly previously realised.

You're right.

When Broken disconnected responsibility for handling the economy from HMG it was a cynical move to pass the buck to the BoE leaving HMG to play their own game with the BoE to pick up the pieces and being mandated to maintain interest rates within fixed bounds.

The theory was that an independent BoE would be able to operate more effectively without government interference.  Unfortunately when Brown attempted to replace the responsibility that the BoE had for control of the whole UK finance sector, especially banking with the FSA that he created was flawed from the get-go because the FSA did not hence the banks were able to play virtually fast and lose which when the US banking also played fast and lose was the root cause of the collapse of the UK banks because in effect there was no one with the power and authority to prevent them from so doing. 

The FSA simply did not have the power to intervene that the BoE had before Brown screwed things up.  

The rest is history.