sir nige Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 hour ago, ballaughbiker said: Pritti Patel's "unskilled" parents wouldn't have got through this proposed system when they arrived from Uganda. Just imagine, for 1 second, not having been able to benefit from Ms. Patel's undoubted charms.... they wouldn't have got in under the law as it is now....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir nige Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 49 minutes ago, mojomonkey said: Cheers, seems like a pretty good deal. its #snowflakearmageddon on twitter...... who would of thought treating everyone the same would cause so much outrage...... end of using eu i.d. card for entry as well.......great move...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 hour ago, sir nige said: end of using eu i.d. card for entry as well.......great move...... That was always going to happen when the UK left the EU. It is a default position not a "great move". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) Quote they wouldn't have got in under the law as it is now....... So we do have some control of our borders? However the actual point which went ''whoosh" or more likely you chose to ignore was that Patel would not be here now as HS under the more restrictive changes she is planning. Just imagine the wealth of future ability you will now reject because their European parents do not have adequate earning potential (rather than actual ability). Edited February 19, 2020 by ballaughbiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir nige Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, ballaughbiker said: So we do have some control of our borders? However the actual point which went ''whoosh" or more likely you chose to ignore was that Patel would not be here now as HS under the more restrictive changes she is planning. Just imagine the wealth of future ability you will now reject because their European parents do not have adequate earning potential (rather than actual ability). no........ because a fair few that wouldn't get a visa to the uk come in via the eu and get a eu i.d. card......then when they commit a crime the eu member state doesn't want them back.......so it costs the uk a fortune to send them back home...... "new europeans" the irish call them.......very pc...... 1 hour ago, manxman1980 said: That was always going to happen when the UK left the EU. It is a default position not a "great move". nope........ Edited February 19, 2020 by sir nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Quote no........ because a fair few that wouldn't get a visa to the uk come in via the eu and get a eu i.d. card......then when they commit a crime the eu member state doesn't want them back.......so it costs the uk a fortune to send them back home...... Which is an 'answer' to a question not asked. How about answering the point that Patel would not have been able to move here under the rules she is proposing if her parents had, for example, Swedish passports and, say, did not earn enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 27 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: Which is an 'answer' to a question not asked. How about answering the point that Patel would not have been able to move here under the rules she is proposing if her parents had, for example, Swedish passports and, say, did not earn enough. Why is what happened decades ago relevant now? You have to make policy for today not for how things were back then. It seems eminently sensible to attract those who can make the greatest contribution now and bar those who would be a drain or worse, undesirable or potentially criminal. This is far less likely to be a problem among the highly skilled and well paid wherever they come from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 23 minutes ago, woolley said: Why is what happened decades ago relevant now? You have to make policy for today not for how things were back then. It seems eminently sensible to attract those who can make the greatest contribution now and bar those who would be a drain or worse, undesirable or potentially criminal. This is far less likely to be a problem among the highly skilled and well paid wherever they come from. Perhaps because Priti Patel, and some others, could be viewed as "pulling the drawbridge up behind them". There are people in Government now whose families benefited from previous arrangements but now the second generation of immigrants want to further control immigration. It is fascinating... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Minutiae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Quote Why is what happened decades ago relevant now? It is future principle that we are discussing. Much is made of 'worthy' migrants but this policy will exclude potentially very worthy migrants because their parents may not be high earners. Regretfully, there may be many very capable persons excluded because of the new rules. I can think of one person I know very well since we were students who came to the UK from Kenya in the 70s with nothing financial or academic. He now has significant business interests in Essex and Kent which have made him a multi millionaire. Whilst woody will dilute the point by saying he may be presently excluded from Kenya using modern criteria, we are about to invoke this to millions much nearer home to our imo considerable detriment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 hour ago, manxman1980 said: Perhaps because Priti Patel, and some others, could be viewed as "pulling the drawbridge up behind them". There are people in Government now whose families benefited from previous arrangements but now the second generation of immigrants want to further control immigration. It is fascinating... So what? Should the "drawbridge" remain down for all time because some people benefited from it in the past? That seems a curious principle to work by. You might apply the same orthodoxy to all kinds of issues. Should everyone still receive free higher education? People had this provision in the past, and even received maintenance grants while they studied. Now those same people have "pulled the drawbridge up behind them". What about womens' pensions at 60 and mens' at 65? The "drawbridge" has been pulled up on those too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 hour ago, ballaughbiker said: It is future principle that we are discussing. Much is made of 'worthy' migrants but this policy will exclude potentially very worthy migrants because their parents may not be high earners. Regretfully, there may be many very capable persons excluded because of the new rules. I can think of one person I know very well since we were students who came to the UK from Kenya in the 70s with nothing financial or academic. He now has significant business interests in Essex and Kent which have made him a multi millionaire. Whilst woody will dilute the point by saying he may be presently excluded from Kenya using modern criteria, we are about to invoke this to millions much nearer home to our imo considerable detriment. Well, yes, undoubtedly, but you cannot base an immigration policy on "potential" for 30 or 40 years into the future. It seems like an apology for an open door policy. Is that what you advocate? After all, anyone from any background can ultimately make good. For every potential captain of industry though. there will be thousands more on the negative side of the balance sheet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Nobody even half reasonable (so not Steptoe then) is advocating an open door policy. Even the EU law (which is now irrelevant) makes a distinction between those who work and better themselves and those that don't and criminals. Despite woody's oft used example of the 3 ?Poles who escaped deportation on UK lawyer driven human rights arguments, we could have sent back any who did not work/could not support themselves financially but never did. If we had done this like Spain and France always have, I think brexit would not have happened. Trouble is, we have no ID system or coherent way of tracking "holidaymakers" (EU visitors staying up to 3 months) so many took the p enabling the charalatan in chief to falsely blame the EU which was misdescribed as forcing us to keep them We could now have our own similar system where a minimal time, enforced by visa, was required to establish oneself financially and if not...offski. Patel's parents eg would have met such a requirement. Enforcing something this is the opposite of an open door policy but ultimately it depends on whether we want to cut off our noses etc or have an ID system. I suspect the former will appeal more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Quote So what? Should the "drawbridge" remain down for all time because some people benefited from it in the past? That seems a curious principle to work by. You might apply the same orthodoxy to all kinds of issues. Should everyone still receive free higher education? People had this provision in the past, and even received maintenance grants while they studied. Now those same people have "pulled the drawbridge up behind them". What about womens' pensions at 60 and mens' at 65? The "drawbridge" has been pulled up on those too. Yep fair drawbridge points. Nothing is forever but when I worked in Oldham back in the 80s it was common to hear migrant's UK born progeny to be anti further immigration. I still can't grasp the real reason for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir nige Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 3 hours ago, ballaughbiker said: Which is an 'answer' to a question not asked. How about answering the point that Patel would not have been able to move here under the rules she is proposing if her parents had, for example, Swedish passports and, say, did not earn enough. how do you know pp is behind this and not dr.evil? for everyone of them that made a success of coming to the uk......many more didn't..... raising standards is no bad thing....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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