Rog Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 12 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: I don't think I need to remind you both that the new immigration rules need to pass through Parliament and be in place by the 1st January 2021... You cannot carry on the existing regulations as they allow EU workers to freely enter and work in the UK without a visa. If you argue that you simply extend them to include EU workers then you suddenly have a lot of employers who won't have sponsorship licences and will struggle with recruitment. And I don't think that is a bad thing. In addition to draining the swamp we want to keep immigrants out of the UK and bring the can work won't work into play, not leave them as they are, by using existing legislation and only open our door to those foreigners who could add real value. Maybe increasing wages would get the idle off their backsides too because there is no doubt that cheap labour has brought down UK wages, increased UK unemployment, and resulted in a huge amount of cash in hand payments with the knock on of lost UK taxes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir nige Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 3 hours ago, manxman1980 said: The breakdown shows a decrease in EU citizens migrating to the UK but an increase in non-EU citizens migrating to the UK. Those non-EU citizens are having to go through the current visa and immigration processes which suggests that immigration will not dwindle when freedom of movement ends. Under the new proposals the UK Government is going to remove the resident labour market test. This somewhat flies in the face of Rog's claim of forcing the "lazy" to work. That said the new immigration rules will swell Government coffers as companies have to pay for sponsorship licences, pay immigration and skills charges. That is in addition to the additional red tape that employers will have to comply with to recruit EU workers which they do not have to do now. students...... 3 hours ago, manxman1980 said: No they're not what? Currently non-EU citizens gain entry via what is laughably referred to as a points based immigration system but in reality is a checklist. The proposed new immigration rules are essentially the same system with some tweaks (like the removal of the resident labour market test) and actually assigning points to the criteria. I suspect there will also be a re-branding so that those who are not familiar with the current visa and immigration system think that the rules have changed significantly. its the same policy set up by labour...... 2 hours ago, manxman1980 said: The proposals remove the resident labour market test. This requires employers wishing to recruit from outside the UK/EU to advertise the role in specified locations for a specified period of time and document that this has been done before they can make an offer to a non-EU national. That requirement will no longer apply under the current scheme so employers will still be able to apply for visa's without trying to recruit from within the UK. It is proposed to reduce the salary requirements making it more likely that a non-UK national will be able to obtain a visa. That all makes the process easier (although employers will face an increase in costs compared to being able to recruit EU nationals). The increased costs and record keeping requirements will impact on businesses. The new rules really impact those entering low-skilled roles such as those picking fruit and veg and those working in hospitality. As we have seen at least one brexit supporter is unhappy about that. They also impact on the self-employed as the new proposals do not include an immigration route for those people (the current arrangements do). no it doesn't...... 1 hour ago, manxman1980 said: Care to point out in the new proposals where the allowance is for such working visas? I asked Woolley earlier but he avoided the question. i already did....gov. set it at 2500 visas......industry wanted 10000........gov. set it at 10000......easy..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 8 minutes ago, sir nige said: students...... And just what economic benefit are these students bringing? If I recall correctly students overstaying visa's is one of the biggest groups of illegal immigrants in the UK. I stand to be corrected on this though. 8 minutes ago, sir nige said: its the same policy set up by labour...... Yes, I know. Rog seems to think the new proposals are somehow magically different. 8 minutes ago, sir nige said: no it doesn't...... It does. Low skilled workers have no entry route under the new proposals. 8 minutes ago, sir nige said: i already did....gov. set it at 2500 visas......industry wanted 10000........gov. set it at 10000......easy..... Come on woody, I am talking about the future arrangements not the current ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Rog said: Moreover your assumption that immigrants will be permitted to remain as we move forward is very unfounded plus as further legislation is enacted to make our country very less attractive than it has been a great many are likely to look for greener fields. Where have I assumed that immigrants will be permitted to remain? Oh dear, I haven't. So wind your neck in. Thanks. Incidentally I spent several years working with Lunatic House trying to find illegals and have them removed. So I believe I know a great deal more about it than you ever will. 3 hours ago, Rog said: Why is it racist to want sovereignty and independence returned to our nation and why is it racist to demand that all those here illegally or have behaved inappropriately are kicked out? Where have I said anyone who wants their illusory sovereignty returned has to be a racist? Oh dear, I haven't. So now I'm really intrigued as to why YOU would associate racism with voting brexit? Care to share... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: And just what economic benefit are these students bringing? If I recall correctly students overstaying visa's is one of the biggest groups of illegal immigrants in the UK. I stand to be corrected on this though. Yes, I know. Rog seems to think the new proposals are somehow magically different. It does. Low skilled workers have no entry route under the new proposals. Come on woody, I am talking about the future arrangements not the current ones. When push comes to shove BREXIT is first and foremost about restoration of OUR sovereignty and OUR Independence and NOT about letting foreigners into OUR country unless under conditions that best suits us, not businesses that want to import workers which while obviously important are not the number one priority especially not the low or often no skill types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, P.K. said: Where have I assumed that immigrants will be permitted to remain? Oh dear, I haven't. So wind your neck in. Thanks. Incidentally I spent several years working with Lunatic House trying to find illegals and have them removed. So I believe I know a great deal more about it than you ever will. Where have I said anyone who wants their illusory sovereignty returned has to be a racist? Oh dear, I haven't. So now I'm really intrigued as to why YOU would associate racism with voting brexit? Care to share... Just read some of the stuff you've written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir nige Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 1 hour ago, manxman1980 said: And just what economic benefit are these students bringing? If I recall correctly students overstaying visa's is one of the biggest groups of illegal immigrants in the UK. I stand to be corrected on this though. Yes, I know. Rog seems to think the new proposals are somehow magically different. It does. Low skilled workers have no entry route under the new proposals. Come on woody, I am talking about the future arrangements not the current ones. so am i...the new regs have 10000 visa's for farm work...... a great deal of the new students are from china they tend to all go back.......they also pay fees so great for economic benefit....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir nige Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 3 hours ago, sir nige said: 7 hours ago, P.K. said: Good. Hopefully the endgame of a very nasty civil war. and the start of one in the eu........ https://www.manxradio.com/news/world-news/turkey-opens-its-borders-to-europe-for-refugees-as-syria-conflict-escalates/ Turkey has opened its borders with Europe, allowing Syrian refugees and other migrants to pass through, an official has said. It follows the killing of 33 Turkish soldiers by Russian-backed Syrian government troops. It is the deadliest attack suffered by the Turkish army in almost 30 years - the assault in Idlib marking a serious escalation in the conflict. "We have decided, effectively immediately, not to stop Syrian refugees from reaching Europe by land or sea," a senior Turkish official told the Reuters news agency. "All refugees, including Syrians, are now welcome to cross into the European Union." It means Ankara has effectively stopped abiding by a deal struck with the EU in 2016 to stop refugees reaching Europe. Within hours, dozens of migrants were seen heading towards the European frontier. "We heard about it on the television," said Afghan migrant Sahin Nebizade, 16, who was among a group packed into three taxis. They had come from Istanbul and were heading for a border crossing to Greece. Greece and Bulgaria said they would reinforce their frontiers immediately. Greece sent more police to its northern border and increased maritime patrols around its islands. At a land crossing between Pazarkule in Turkey and Kastanies in northeastern Greece, police buses were seen denying access to hundreds of people. "They will not enter the country. They are irregular migrants - we won't let them enter," a Greek government official said. Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis tweeted: "I want to be clear: no illegal entries into Greece will be tolerated. We are increasing our border security." Demiroren news agency broadcast drone footage on Friday showing around 300 migrants, including women and children, walking through northwest Turkey. It said the group included Syrians, Iranians, Iraqis, Pakistanis and Moroccans. Sky's Mark Stone said Thursday night's airstrike demonstrates "how convoluted and conflicted this Syrian conflict has become". As a consequence, Ankara has struck back, triggering the potential of a much larger conflict between the Syrian regime and Turkey. NATO members are deeply divided over Turkey's actions in Syria, and European allies are worried about any new wave of refugees arriving. Stone said: "The Turks have wanted for some time for NATO to get involved. They would like a no-fly zone put over northwestern Syria, they say, to protect the civilians." Nearly a million of them have moved up to the northwestern corner of Syria to try and escape the fighting in and around the city of Idlib. Sky News gained rare access to northwest Syria, where special correspondent Alex Crawford found indiscriminate bombing of civilian targets, thousands of displaced people fleeing violence and what she described as "obvious war crimes". Stone said: "Turkey clearly has ulterior motives for wanting a NATO no-fly zone - they want to protect those northeastern and northwestern parts of Syria for their own political reasons." There are 3.5 million Syrian refugees in Turkey. Since the 2016 deal with the EU, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has repeatedly threatened to "open the gates" in several disputes with European states. Stone said Mr Erdogan has the ability to "switch the tap on and off" in terms of allowing refugees into Europe, adding "there are this morning images similar to those we saw in 2015 of refugees crossing the border". He said: "(There are) much, much smaller numbers but what I think Turkey is trying to do is put huge pressure on NATO, who are meeting this morning in Brussels to discuss it." It comes a day after Omer Celik, a spokesman for President Erdogan's ruling party AKP, said NATO should stand by Turkey's side. In a message seemingly aimed at Europe, he added: "Our refugee policy is the same but there's a situation there, we're no longer able to hold refugees." i hope mojo has space....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Rog said: Just read some of the stuff you've written. I've posted in the past that I know a lot of folks voted Leave out of inherent racism. But I'm still intrigued as to why you associated racism with those wanting their illusory sovereignty back. Care to share? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 4 hours ago, woolley said: Legislation can be put through very rapidly when there is the need. It would need to be job and person specific a bit like our work permits, not a free for all. Yes and "knee jerk" legislation is inevitably very poor legislation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir nige Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, P.K. said: Yes and "knee jerk" legislation is inevitably very poor legislation. see remoan mp's........bj wouldn't be pm without them........well done pk....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 4 hours ago, P.K. said: So wind your neck in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 56 minutes ago, P.K. said: I've posted in the past that I know a lot of folks voted Leave out of inherent racism. But I'm still intrigued as to why you associated racism with those wanting their illusory sovereignty back. Care to share? You've inferred that I'm driven by racism often enough old son. I'm not, but that's never stopped you. Now I'm not going to get into a one on one pissing contest on this forum with you or anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir nige Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 2016 mrs may..... we want a bespoke deal....... barney.... you can only have the pre-packaged options....... 2020 bj.....we want to choose from the pre-packaged options....... barney.......you can only have a bespoke deal........ #eulogic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, sir nige said: 2016 mrs may..... we want a bespoke deal....... barney.... you can only have the pre-packaged options....... 2020 bj.....we want to choose from the pre-packaged options....... barney.......you can only have a bespoke deal........ #eulogic That works both ways though, it just demonstrates that both sides are belligerent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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