Rog Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 16 minutes ago, P.K. said: The real concern for me is the global rise of populism where mendacious self-serving politicos have no qualms whatsoever about lying to their electorate. It's particularly bad when the usual checks and balances, like decent media outlets, not only fail to expose them for what they are but actually build on their lies. The problem being lies do not fix complex problems and never will... Populism listening to what the people want and delivering it. Oh dear, can't have that can we? Look what happens. We have achieved return of our independence and sovereignty as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, P.K. said: As long as they are now safe, especially the children, is the ONLY thing that should concern one.... If the SOB's hadn't engaged in a murderous war against the legally and popularly elected Syrian government, many of them entering Syria from neighbouring states, they would not now having to run away having failed. Just not into Europe thank you very much. We are only remiss in not having defended Assad when they attempted the take over with the tacit approval of Barack Hussein who has much to answer for where islamic incursions in countries in the Middle East is concerned. His aim for a geographic Green Crescent damm near succeeded were it not for Egypt and Syria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 12 minutes ago, Rog said: Populism listening to what the people want and delivering it. Oh dear, can't have that can we? Look what happens. We have achieved return of our independence and sovereignty as a result. No Roger. Populism is not "listening to what the people want and delivering it" at all. It's looking at what is required and then proposing stupidly simple solutions, that haven't a chance of actually working, but simple slogans are the type the hard of thinking can get behind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir nige Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 24 minutes ago, P.K. said: As long as they are now safe, especially the children, is the ONLY thing that should concern one.... tear gas and reports of machine gun fire......you must be so proud of your eu army....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir nige Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 7 minutes ago, P.K. said: No Roger. Populism is not "listening to what the people want and delivering it" at all. It's looking at what is required and then proposing stupidly simple solutions, that haven't a chance of actually working, but simple slogans are the type the hard of thinking can get behind. and the libdum slogan was...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 10 minutes ago, P.K. said: No Roger. Populism is not "listening to what the people want and delivering it" at all. It's looking at what is required and then proposing stupidly simple solutions, that haven't a chance of actually working, but simple slogans are the type the hard of thinking can get behind. We want to be represented in government, not told what is good for us. Populism is the highest form of democracy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, P.K. said: This is one of the problems - lack of decent info. Johnson has set it up so there will be no debate in the HoC on "progress" or whatever you care to call it. Except for the odd flurry at PMQ's and drip-feeding what they want you to hear by totally untrustworthy greasy shysters like Gove. The sensible option is don't believe a word of it. The BBC license fee has been put front and centre to make them tone everything down. Can't fault the logic. Which leaves the UK rabid right wing press, which is to say pretty much all of it. At the behest of the owner they have been running down the EU for years and years. But since the referendum they seem to have slipped into reporting on an alternative reality where everything is amazingly wonderful, presumably to keep the hard of thinking on side while they can. A classic example the other day. One of them reported an EU official saying: "No one can stop Britain..." inferring that everything will be wonderful in 2021. What he actually said was "No one can stop Britain going off a cliff....!" which has just slightly different connotations as I'm sure you'll agree... As I said, reporting on an "alternative reality" - so who to believe? The piece I quoted on the "oven ready deal" nonsense, which nobody sensible should have believed anyway, came from the Independent. I'm OK with that... Rather than be 'OK' with a comment on the facts by a writer from the Independent - why not just read BJ's actual article posted 9:30pm on 5th November 2019 in the Telegraph. Boris was referring to the 'deal' that he had agreed with the EU following his meeting with Varadker on 10th October at Thornton Manor on the Wirral at which they had had come to a solution on the Irish border issue thereby allowing the WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT to proceed. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/11/05/deal-oven-ready-get-brexit-done-take-country-forward/ Your 'quote' as you put it is nothing of the sort, in order to 'quote' you would need to quote the source (BJ) rather than the comments of an ill-informed journalist as you did. You, and the Independent's journalist are making up stories - sorry. Edited February 29, 2020 by Manximus Aururaneus 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 2 hours ago, Rog said: We want to be represented in government, not told what is good for us. Populism is the highest form of democracy. Saved for posterity. An absolute classic.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Manximus Aururaneus said: Rather than be 'OK' with a comment on the facts by a writer from the Independent - why not just read BJ's actual article posted 9:30pm on 5th November 2019 in the Telegraph. Boris was referring to the 'deal' that he had agreed with the EU following his meeting with Varadker on 10th October at Thornton Manor on the Wirral at which they had had come to a solution on the Irish border issue thereby allowing the WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT to proceed. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/11/05/deal-oven-ready-get-brexit-done-take-country-forward/ Your 'quote' as you put it is nothing of the sort, in order to 'quote' you would need to quote the source (BJ) rather than the comments of an ill-informed journalist as you did. You, and the Independent's journalist are making up stories - sorry. That's simple. I haven't the slightest interest in the alternative reality as purported by the Barclay brothers and I don't believe a word from totally amoral narcissistic serial philanderer and inveterate liar Boris Johnson. Heaven help us our actual Prime Minister. Surely nothing there that's difficult to understand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Stupid populists strike again! Philip Rutnam resignation: his full statement The senior civil servant at the Home Office has resigned after a series of clashes with the home secretary, Priti Patel “I have this morning resigned as permanent secretary of the Home Office. I take this decision with great regret after a career of 33 years. “I am making this statement now because I will be issuing a claim against the Home Office for constructive dismissal. In the last 10 days I have been the target of a vicious and orchestrated briefing campaign. It has been alleged that I have briefed the media against the home secretary. This, along with many other claims, is completely false. “The home secretary categorically denied any involvement in this campaign to the Cabinet Office. I regret I do not believe her. She has not made the efforts I would expect to dissociate herself from the comments. “Even despite this campaign, I was willing to effect a reconciliation with the home secretary, as requested by the cabinet secretary on behalf of the prime minister. But despite my efforts to engage with her, Priti Patel has made no effort to engage with me to discuss this. “I believe that these events give me very strong grounds to claim constructive unfair dismissal, and I will be pursuing that claim in the courts. My experience has been extreme but I consider there is evidence it was part of a wider pattern of behaviour." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, P.K. said: Stupid populists strike again! Philip Rutnam resignation: his full statement The senior civil servant at the Home Office has resigned after a series of clashes with the home secretary, Priti Patel “I have this morning resigned as permanent secretary of the Home Office. I take this decision with great regret after a career of 33 years. “I am making this statement now because I will be issuing a claim against the Home Office for constructive dismissal. In the last 10 days I have been the target of a vicious and orchestrated briefing campaign. It has been alleged that I have briefed the media against the home secretary. This, along with many other claims, is completely false. “The home secretary categorically denied any involvement in this campaign to the Cabinet Office. I regret I do not believe her. She has not made the efforts I would expect to dissociate herself from the comments. “Even despite this campaign, I was willing to effect a reconciliation with the home secretary, as requested by the cabinet secretary on behalf of the prime minister. But despite my efforts to engage with her, Priti Patel has made no effort to engage with me to discuss this. “I believe that these events give me very strong grounds to claim constructive unfair dismissal, and I will be pursuing that claim in the courts. My experience has been extreme but I consider there is evidence it was part of a wider pattern of behaviour." Mission accomplished, many more to come yet. At this rate they'll be culling BBC staff by xmas. Edited February 29, 2020 by Manximus Aururaneus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 16 minutes ago, P.K. said: Saved for posterity. An absolute classic.... I wouldn't bother. It's not original and a view that is widely held and increasingly so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, P.K. said: Stupid populists strike again! Philip Rutnam resignation: his full statement The senior civil servant at the Home Office has resigned after a series of clashes with the home secretary, Priti Patel “I have this morning resigned as permanent secretary of the Home Office. I take this decision with great regret after a career of 33 years. “I am making this statement now because I will be issuing a claim against the Home Office for constructive dismissal. In the last 10 days I have been the target of a vicious and orchestrated briefing campaign. It has been alleged that I have briefed the media against the home secretary. This, along with many other claims, is completely false. “The home secretary categorically denied any involvement in this campaign to the Cabinet Office. I regret I do not believe her. She has not made the efforts I would expect to dissociate herself from the comments. “Even despite this campaign, I was willing to effect a reconciliation with the home secretary, as requested by the cabinet secretary on behalf of the prime minister. But despite my efforts to engage with her, Priti Patel has made no effort to engage with me to discuss this. “I believe that these events give me very strong grounds to claim constructive unfair dismissal, and I will be pursuing that claim in the courts. My experience has been extreme but I consider there is evidence it was part of a wider pattern of behaviour." Proof that Ms Patel is doing the right thing. It's past time that the HMG civil service was reminded what it's role is vis-à-vis government ministers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 29 minutes ago, Rog said: Proof that Ms Patel is doing the right thing. It's past time that the HMG civil service was reminded what it's role is vis-à-vis government ministers. She's been accused of lying. Just following the PM's lead I guess. If you want to put your trust in Patel, Gove and Johnson then I'm very happy for you.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, P.K. said: She's been accused of lying. Just following the PM's lead I guess. If you want to put your trust in Patel, Gove and Johnson then I'm very happy for you.... Care to show in what she lied? You've made the same claims against our prime minister yet so far not indicated where. I am indeed happy to put my trust in them if for no other reason than they're the most trustworthy game in town. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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