So the UK is finished says Theresa Mayhem

[manxman1980]

11 hours ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

Excellent stuff.

I look forward to you Party name, your manifesto, and your reasons for persuading IOM residents to abide by EU rules.

I don't hate the IOM, I love it, it means that I soon will not be paying any EU taxes even if you do, crack on dear boy, crack on paying my EU taxes for me.

You will be paying increased taxes if the UK and EU don't come to an agreement. 

Everything that crosses the border from the EU to UK will have higher tariffs imposed under a no deal scenario and that will be passed on to the consumer. 

Being on the Isle of Man will not insulate you from that.  In fact it will be worse. There is a reason why fuel, food and other goods tend to be more expensive on the Island compared to the UK...

I understand why people in the UK voted to leave the EU.  About 12 years ago I would have been a Brexiteer myself. 

Then I grew up.  I understood that the media and Government often used the EU to justify unpopular policies.  I saw through the lies of Farage, Johnson and Francois. 

Now you are going to find out the hard way that you have been misled.  You will realise you are not insulated from the fall out on the Island.

I invite you once again to leave the Isle of Man and go and live in the sunlit uplands of Brexit Britain...

[Kipper99]

It’s never quite clear if @Manximus Aururaneusis here twiddling his thumbs and posting ignorant rubbish on the coat tails of the super salary of his wife as a Nobles consultant, or whether she’s here on the coat tails of the fortune (t)he(y) made out of care homes in the southwest of England.

Either way he’s one of the nastiest, smug, self satisfied posters on here.

[TerryFuchwit]

19 hours ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

Perhaps you might have had more success trying to persuade the taxpayers of your own country to pay for your desired EU membership rather than trying to get the taxpayers of the UK to do your dirty work for you.

Introducing corporation tax and dropping work permits would be a little step in the required direction. Interesting to see how you get on.

Eh? That's a bizarre suggestion.

[Manximus Aururaneus]

13 hours ago, mojomonkey said:

Maximus - fair enough if you think Brexit is a good thing but do you think no deal is a good thing?

Firstly, thank you for allowing me an opinion on the Governance structure of my own country Monkey - a pity that some others here have a problem with that - hey ho.

No - I do not think that no deal is a good thing. I do not even think that leaving the Common Market is a good thing either.

But that's the whole point - we joined a Common Market that turned into 'ever closer union' - it was a massive deception, it has now been admitted as such, even the EU itself uses 'Federation' as its best descriptor.

And when it comes to the Governance of my country, I choose democracy over deception. 

So, having been massively deceived - the people of the UK have expressed their democratic wish to leave. I will respect that just as I respected the original 1972 referendum decision the other way and would have respected a 'remain' decision in 2016 had that occurred. The 2016 decision has been enacted - the UK has left the EU federation of states. 'Ever closer union' now excludes both the UK and the IOM.

Personally I would have chosen WTO back in 2016 (there is no such thing as 'no deal' for the simple reason that WTO is interwoven into EU law and would be all but impossible to remove).

WTO with the opportunity to then negotiate a closer deal would have been my choice - but we are where we are. I am no longer an EU member, and no longer a proxy member for those IOM residents who want to dictate that I should remain a member for their benefit,  pay the dues and taxes that they themselves have avoided for 47 years, and then be criticised when I've had enough of doing so.

If Manxman1980 wishes to become an EU member then I have absolutely no problem with him doing so - it would be his absolute democratic choice to take that step. I have exercised my democratic choice to step in a different direction.

 

 

[John Wright]

@Manximus Aururaneus

you've never been an EU member. No such thing as individual membership.

Treaty of Rome always said "ever closer union" from day one, how was there a deception?  Enoch Powell, and many others,  were shouting about the dangers of federalism as the  long term end in 1972 and 1975.

The amount paid in has been worth every penny, and more in terms of peace within the EU,  between members, growing the markets and economies of new members, customs union and single market, stabilising new members internally as they transitioned from right or left wing dictatorship, all of which the UK has had the benefit of, and to a certain, but limited, extent on its coat tails, so has the IOM

The single market has been so successful and the UK and IOM ( because its in a customs union with UK and is, by default inside the single market for goods, but not services) are fully integrated into it for supply and consumption that extricating was always going to be seismic. Its 45% of what we produce and 8% of what the EU27 produces. The over alll shock to UK & IOM is bound to be of bigger than that felt by the EU27.

Brexiters have banged on about sovereignty. It was never lost, UK pooled bits, just like Scotland and Ireland did to become part of GB or UK. UK could leave  any time. It has. But at what costs. And is saving fish exclusively for UK or IOM fishermen going to help when they cant sell it as its priced out of the EU market by tariffs and its not the sort of fish Brits want to eat.

Is it good for UK sovereignty that Brexit clearly means, sooner rather than later, or never, the break up of the UK.

The cost in jobs, inflation, shortages over the next few years is much more than the net cost of membership for decades. And all to save Cameron from the ERG nutters in the Tory party and because Brits have been fed rubbish by the redtops for years and British politicians have liked being able to have a scapegoat. All because of exceptionalism which casts Brits as superior because we had an empire and won WW1 & 2. 

Not sure what mind altering substance of choice you were on in 1972. There wasn't a referendum, it must have been all in your mind. UK didnt even join the EC until January 1973 and the Wilson Labour Referendum was in June 1975. 

[Manximus Aururaneus]

23 minutes ago, John Wright said:

@Manximus Aururaneus

you've never been an EU member. No such thing as individual membership.

Treaty of Rome always said "ever closer union" from day one, how was there a deception?  Enoch Powell, and many others,  were shouting about the dangers of federalism as the  long term end in 1972 and 1975.

The amount paid in has been worth every penny, and more in terms of peace within the EU,  between members, growing the markets and economies of new members, customs union and single market, stabilising new members internally as they transitioned from right or left wing dictatorship, all of which the UK has had the benefit of, and to a certain, but limited, extent on its coat tails, so has the IOM

The single market has been so successful and the UK and IOM ( because its in a customs union with UK and is, by default inside the single market for goods, but not services) are fully integrated into it for supply and consumption that extricating was always going to be seismic. Its 45% of what we produce and 8% of what the EU27 produces. The over alll shock to UK & IOM is bound to be of bigger than that felt by the EU27.

Brexiters have banged on about sovereignty. It was never lost, UK pooled bits, just like Scotland and Ireland did to become part of GB or UK. UK could leave  any time. It has. But at what costs. And is saving fish exclusively for UK or IOM fishermen going to help when they cant sell it as its priced out of the EU market by tariffs and its not the sort of fish Brits want to eat.

Is it good for UK sovereignty that Brexit clearly means, sooner rather than later, or never, the break up of the UK.

The cost in jobs, inflation, shortages over the next few years is much more than the net cost of membership for decades. And all to save Cameron from the ERG nutters in the Tory party and because Brits have been fed rubbish by the redtops for years and British politicians have liked being able to have a scapegoat. All because of exceptionalism which casts Brits as superior because we had an empire and won WW1 & 2. 

Not sure what mind altering substance of choice you were on in 1972. There wasn't a referendum, it must have been all in your mind. UK didnt even join the EC until January 1973 and the Wilson Labour Referendum was in June 1975. 

Coffee

Decision

Made

Democracy

Tough

[Kipper99]

And if manximus and his missus were running care homes, and this was one of theirs, this cqc extract might explain why they don’t like regulation from Brussels or London.

[TheTeapot]

 

[Non-Believer]

So.....Bojo and von der Leyen release joint statement declaring that negotiations are to continue beyond today's deadline. However, as has been pointed out, von der Leyen is negotiating solo - even if a deal is reached by her it still has to be then ratified by the European Council of leaders.

Part of UK's advanced preparations for no deal now involve barrier-ing off a lane of the M20 so the lorries have somewhere to park...

[manxman1980]

3 hours ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

If Manxman1980 wishes to become an EU member then I have absolutely no problem with him doing so - it would be his absolute democratic choice to take that step. I have exercised my democratic choice to step in a different direction.

As John has stated an individual cannot become a member of the EU.  

I would quite happily have an EU Passport if I could get one.

As I have stated before I do pay taxes in the United Kingdom. The business I work for pays taxes in the UK.   I therefore have every right to comment on the UKs membership of the EU and the shambles that is Brexit.

[Max Power]

I thought this was quite funny...

 

[pongo]

2 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

As John has stated an individual cannot become a member of the EU.  

I would quite happily have an EU Passport if I could get one.

As I have stated before I do pay taxes in the United Kingdom. The business I work for pays taxes in the UK.   I therefore have every right to comment on the UKs membership of the EU and the shambles that is Brexit.

You have a right to anyhow. Especially given that the vast majority of Manx people were EU citizens.

[pongo]

2 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

I would quite happily have an EU Passport if I could get one.

The economic downside is obviously important - but much more importantly from my perspective, @Manximus Aururaneus and his anti-single-market friends have robbed me of my EU citizenship and the freedoms afforded. I won't ever forgive any of them for that. We are now less free.

Given where we now are I would personally now be happy to see Britain unilaterally abolish tariffs on imports (as the vehemently pro-Brexit Professor Patrick Minford, a former advisor to Mrs Thatcher, has been arguing).

 

[pongo]

I doubt Boris Johnson would have the nerve for that though. 

[Max Power]