So the UK is finished says Theresa Mayhem

[genericUserName]

2 hours ago, John Wright said:

Except the Unionist party that title refers to is the Unionists in Ireland.

I think it is rather more nuanced than that. 

The Scottish Conservative Party is officially known as The Scottish Conservative & Unionist Party. And yet it is also part of the Conservative & Unionist Party.

Until the 1960s, the main Conservative faction in Scotland was called The Unionist Party.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Conservatives

Many different factions and small former Liberal and Tory parties have folded in over the years. And some of those factions had surprisingly close links to what became the SNP.

I think that in the context of Scottish Conservatism, 'unionism' has multiple meanings.

Not forgetting that a significant aspect of colonialism in Ireland is Scottish.

Edited March 2, 2023 by genericUserName

[manxman1980]

52 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I don’t spend all my time checking this site.

I do have a life and have been out all afternoon and came back to JW’s post which stated what I already knew but I’m glad he made the point. (Why am I explaining my movements to you?)

OK not everyone may interpret the Unionist thing correctly but if you are going to engage in discussions about the possibility of a country leaving the United Kingdom you should have at least a rudimentary knowledge of such things.

Okay....

 

Let's look at this another way.  Ireland has been a separate country for how long now?

Despite that the Conservative Party retain the Unionist part of the name.  Why?  Do they still have desires to reintegrate Ireland? 

Would they willingly countenance the break up of the United Kingdom? 

54 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

The UK voted to leave the EU. ( the will of the people)

The Scottish people voted to remain in the United Kingdom ( the will of the people)

Not quite sure what you are trying to say.

And yet the Scottish people keep voting the Scottish Nationalist Party into power and very rarely any Conservatives...  the Scottish people must be very confused about what they want.

[The Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, manxman1980 said:

Okay....

 

Let's look at this another way.  Ireland has been a separate country for how long now?

Despite that the Conservative Party retain the Unionist part of the name.  Why?  Do they still have desires to reintegrate Ireland? 

Er no.

The Unionist part of the name refers to the desire to keep Northern Ireland in the United Kingdom as part of the Union ( the clue is in the name)

With respect I think you need to do a bit of research.

[manxman1980]

36 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Er no.

The Unionist part of the name refers to the desire to keep Northern Ireland in the United Kingdom as part of the Union ( the clue is in the name)

With respect I think you need to do a bit of research.

So....

How would they feel about a separate Scotland? 

You are working very hard to avoid answering this.

[Albert Tatlock]

6 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

So....

How would they feel about a separate Scotland? 

You are working very hard to avoid answering this.

If the English could vote on  it,  Scotland would have been independent 5 years ago. 

[manxman1980]

1 minute ago, Albert Tatlock said:

If the English could vote on  it,  Scotland would have been independent 5 years ago. 

And this is what amuses me... 

Scotland are denied a further referendum by the UK Government in Westminster and yet apparently the English electorate, who are largely responsible for the electing the MPs in Westminster want Scotland gone.

And some people will claim this to be the will of the people!

[prism10]

1 hour ago, Albert Tatlock said:

If the English could vote on  it,  Scotland would have been independent 5 years ago. 

So let the Scots have another referendum then!

[P.K.]

13 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Er no.

The Unionist part of the name refers to the desire to keep Northern Ireland in the United Kingdom as part of the Union ( the clue is in the name).

After the shambles of her "strong and stable" election Theresa May bribed the DUP with £1bn of our money to stay in power.

Not tory party money, but our money. From folks who hate the tories and everything they stand for (themselves, donors and cronies...)

[jackwhite]

16 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

The UK voted to leave the EU. ( the will of the people)

The Scottish people voted to remain in the United Kingdom ( the will of the people)

Not quite sure what you are trying to say.

At the same time, split Scotland's vote out for the EU, the Scots people voted to stay in. 

Scotland often votes heavily against the Tories. How often do they get the government they voted for? The answer is, on very few occasions, or not at all if you go with collective voting.

That's one of the reasons the country is split on independence. They are not in control of their overall destiny. Yes, they have some devolved powers, but they are limited. If they want further powers or increased, they have to ask Westminster. 

You seem quite often to hint the English people may not want Scotland to be part of the UK. I'm not sure whether you actually think this or not, as sometimes it comes across like a petulant child. One other poster backs that up, so lets say it's correct. Why then are politicians opposed to the breakup of the UK? What do they know that the English people don't? Why is their view different to that of the people?

There also seems a belief as well that the will to be independent his disappeared with Nicola Sturgeon. I don't think that will be the case at all. Time will tell of course, but the SNP will be pushing for independence in some form, always. They may have a more imminent fight on their hands now in the next elections, holding onto their seats, so, of course, they may be distracted at least somewhat. 

Admittedly there is additional opposition to them now in Scotland than they have had before with recent blunders. So it will be interesting to see how that pans out. The issue for those anti SNP is, I don't believe they have any credible opposition. I think Labour are dead in the eyes of many Scots as they have come so far away from their roots and the Tories, will fail with Douglas Ross in charge, when he's not busy being an assistant referee, completely bias free of course, in high profile Scottish matches.

Edited March 3, 2023 by jackwhite

[The Voice of Reason]

3 minutes ago, jackwhite said:

At the same time, split Scotland's vote out for the EU, the Scots people voted to stay in. 

But what would be the logic in that?
 

It was the UK as a whole voted to remain in the EU in the referendum in the 70’s. There was no individual vote for each country in the UK

The UK as a whole has been in the EU until Brexit 

The UK as a whole voted to leave in 2016 by majority vote. Again no individual vote for each country

As one part of the whole you can’t just pick and choose which bits of a democratic process,  decided upon by a collective vote you are going to follow.

[jackwhite]

3 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

But what would be the logic in that?
 

It was the UK as a whole voted to remain in the EU in the referendum in the 70’s. There was no individual vote for each country in the UK

The UK as a whole has been in the EU until Brexit 

The UK as a whole voted to leave in 2016 by majority vote. Again no individual vote for each country

As one part of the whole you can’t just pick and choose which bits of a democratic process,  decided upon by a collective vote you are going to follow.

As ever, you, likely intentionally to try and make yourself look as though you have an idea what you're talking about, have spectacularly missed the point.

A high number of Scots don't want to be part of the UK because they cannot get what they vote for. They will always be highly outnumbered and want far different things than your standard English voter. 

Given this, it makes sense for them to seek independence when their vote will actually matter. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by jackwhite

[The Voice of Reason]

16 minutes ago, jackwhite said:.

A high number of Scots don't want to be part of the UK because they cannot get what they vote for. They will always be highly outnumbered and want far different things than your standard English voter. 

I know. Life’s not fair is it?

[jackwhite]

4 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I know. Life’s not fair is it?

Again you post nothing constructive to the discussion when your failings are pointed out to you. You've also avoided a number of direct questions in this thread. The reason being you have no idea the answer and can't think up a conceivable one.

You also really seem to go out of your way to post about something that you say you don't care about one way or another, either. 

It will be a lot fairer for Scots when they get independence. It will happen. There's too big a groundswell for it not to at some point. 

[The Voice of Reason]

6 hours ago, jackwhite said:

 

It will be a lot fairer for Scots when they get independence. It will happen. There's too big a groundswell for it not to at some point. 

And then what would you have left to moan about? 

Just Douglas Ross’s ( unbiased?) refereeing I guess

[fatshaft]

On 2/28/2023 at 9:36 PM, The Voice of Reason said:

So the Scots should have a referendum every month until they get their independence vote win?

With the loss of Sturgeon, and her gender identification nonsense that’s not going to happen any time in the near future.

Anyway I’m not much fussed either way. But the reality is that an independent Scotland outside the UK would not be viable. I’d be interested in how you would replace the subsidies you enjoy from the rest of the Union for one?

 

LOL. I bet you'll say you're not influenced by the media either eh? The UK (You must mean England here?) does not subsidise Scotland, Scotland is  a net contributor, a massive one, which is why the English treasury can;t let us go