So the UK is finished says Theresa Mayhem

[P.K.]

2 hours ago, woolley said:

PK. It just isn't good enough to say "It's all too difficult, we can't do it. We are too fookin' stupid to be able to run our affairs as an independent country." which is what you and Pongo yesterday were asking us to accept. If that is what you think then it is no wonder you don't believe in Brexit. I'm sorry it just isn't so. We are a major country full of resourceful problem solving people and we can do this without being beholden to external institutions.

Don't be silly. I'm quite sure we will leave the EU no matter what the difficulties. However, like Pongo, I'm pragmatic about it and simply do not understate how difficult it will be. Yes we have lots of resourceful problem solving people - like these:

"They are doctors, academics, small business owners and stay-at-home parents; accountants, pensioners and IT consultants. They came to Britain from Germany, Greece, the Netherlands, Finland, Norway or France, some a few years ago, others decades earlier. Now they are leaving.

Their decisions are driven by both emotion – frustration, sorrow, anger – and hard-headed pragmatism: a conviction that, for all sorts of reasons, their families’ futures are now better secured on the continent than in Britain.

According to the Office for National Statistics, 117,000 EU nationals left the UK in 2016, the year of the referendum – a 36% increase on 2015. A recent Deloitte report suggested 47% of highly skilled EU27 workers in the UK were considering leaving over the next five years, uncertain about their prospects – and those of their adopted country – once Britain exits the union."

Worth a read for those who don't just bury their heads in the sand  https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/28/brexit-the-eu-nationals-exiting-britain-a-bit-of-me-is-dying-but-i-cant-stay   

[woolley]

Look. Please, no. Not the Guardian. Of course, we have no resourceful people of our own. We only have the ones that come from abroad. Perhaps it's time we started to train up our own people instead of stealing them from elsewhere.

You've heard of Stockholm syndrome? Well there are some very bad cases of Brussels syndrome around here.

Have a great weekend, PK.

[Tarne]

I can see some great things coming out of it, such as wages rising due to shortages in key areas. Which is great news!

I find the guardian hilarious with it's "THERE'S NOT ENOUGH WORKERS" whining when not long ago they were whining "THERE'S NOT ENOUGH JOBS". One is a lot worse than the other  

[P.K.]

I thought the dreaded Grauniad would raise a smile  

To be fair it's not like the right-wing rags who slavishly print the agenda of the owner. Which is to say most of the rest....

The rise in xenophobic attacks after Brexit should be a worry though.

Have a good one Woolster

[P.K.]

9 minutes ago, Tarne said:

I find the guardian hilarious with it's "THERE'S NOT ENOUGH WORKERS" whining when not long ago they were whining "THERE'S NOT ENOUGH JOBS". One is a lot worse than the other  

Good Heavens!

Another MF poster admits to reading The Grauniad!

I thought I was the only one but apparently not.

Well done Tarne old chap, nothing to be ashamed of.....

[Tarne]

I read all sorts of things. I look at the Guardian like I look at FoxNews. It's entertaining to see how far they can spin things to suit themselves. 

[woolley]

I look at the Guardian like I look at the Beano.......................

[Neil Down]

1 minute ago, woolley said:

I look at the Guardian like I look at the Beano.......................

And understand neither...

[P.K.]

6 minutes ago, Tarne said:

I read all sorts of things. I look at the Guardian like I look at FoxNews. It's entertaining to see how far they can spin things to suit themselves. 

" spin things to suit themselves " - as The Grauniad is owned by a trust I'm interested in whose agenda you think they are trying to follow?

[pongo]

Like The Times, The Guardian represents a broad range of different opinion. Editorial opinion, the view of the paper itself, is always clearly distinguished from reportage. The personal opinion pieces can be anything from far right to populist left. From UKIP to Corbyn.

The Telegraph used to be well written but now has very few decent writers and is badly edited. Many of the writers have been replaced with freelancers. And it is no longer a Conservative newspaper since it went down market  - it's now more or less cor-blimey UKIP. You can tell who it is aimed at from the barely coherent comments. The Times and The Guardian are both much better written.

Edited July 28, 2017 by pongo

[pongo]

4 hours ago, Tarne said:

I find the guardian hilarious with it's "THERE'S NOT ENOUGH WORKERS" whining when not long ago they were whining "THERE'S NOT ENOUGH JOBS".

When were they whining that "THERE'S NOT ENOUGH JOBS" ?

If UK labour is not competitively priced then the work will go elsewhere. Let's be clear, there is no shortage of jobbies and clock watchers. The danger is that Britain can no longer attract adequate highly skilled people or those who are prepared to work for what they are realistically worth.

Woolley says we should be training "our own people". I disagree - for the most part it's up to the individual to keep their own skills up to date. The best will and already do. Britain will be worse off if employers are forced to accept whoever is available (like the work permit system).

Edited July 28, 2017 by pongo

[thesultanofsheight]

Well done everyone. You voted for an end of Freedom of Movement and you got it:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4748182/EU-border-checks-leave-UK-tourists-queuing-FOUR-hours.html

Have a great holiday and a nice early introduction to what border security and immigration checks for non EU citizens look like. 

Edited August 1, 2017 by thesultanofsheight

[Tarne]

To be fair, there are always queues for hours in the peak seasons, especially Spanish ones, and even more so since they changed their rules back in March/April for ALL travellers, including Schengen. 

But yes, it is going to be an utter utter pain in the ass at airports at both ends. Freedom of Movement was great for me, but bad for letting horrible immigrants in the country, so it's a mixed bag.

[thesultanofsheight]

6 minutes ago, Tarne said:

To be fair, there are always queues for hours in the peak seasons, especially Spanish ones, and even more so since they changed their rules back in March/April for ALL travellers, including Schengen. 

But yes, it is going to be an utter utter pain in the ass at airports at both ends. Freedom of Movement was great for me, but bad for letting horrible immigrants in the country, so it's a mixed bag.

I think it's brilliant. All the Daily Mailers will be up in arms and saying how terrible and unfair it is and getting angry. But that's what people have voted for; to be treated like second class citizens while they try to trek down to the Costas to get a bit of sun. Once the borders go properly up they'll be in the other queue with all the sweaty indians and non EU nationals too. Even better. Stuck in a long sweaty hours long queue with all the people they hate and wanted to keep out of the UK in the first place. Brilliantly ironic. Welcome to post Brexit holidays. 

Edited August 1, 2017 by thesultanofsheight

[Tarne]

Things aren't going to change too much, and queues are most airports will be easy to navigate. You seem to be overly negative