So the UK is finished says Theresa Mayhem

[pongo]

Obviously, against that, you have to offset the costs of local taxes rising relative to your home currency - foncière, d'habitation and equivalent. There is also the worry of property becoming more difficult to sell in markets which have for several decades now been propped up by free movement. Not a problem in places like the Côte d'Azur which are always going to be over-subscribed. But definitely an issue in the rural backwaters.

Brexit will be good news for bilingual accountants too - since a lot of Brits with properties abroad are going to discover that they now also have to complete a full income tax return. Brexit makes the whole buisness of owning property abroad less attractive in general and therefore undermines the market.

Edited September 10, 2017 by pongo

[ballaughbiker]

The local taxes to which you refer are obviously going to cost more if you earn in £ and pay in €. Mind you out in the styx, both taxes together can be much less than our rates.

As you point out the tax that will catch many relates to a capital gain and in France, if you have been lucky enough to make one of those, the lawyer takes it for the tax man off before handing over the proceeds. I doubt many will be making a capital gain though.

Whilst I agree that it would seem the brexit will undermine the markets, it is surprising that Spanish sales have made quite a bit of a return (from an admittedly poor place) since the vote, especially in the Costa del Sol.

[pongo]

7 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said:

As you point out the tax that will catch many relates to a capital gain and in France,

Well there is also that. But what I am talking about is the need for people from non EU countries to complete an annual income tax return in EU countries where they own properties. There is, for example, a potential liability for tax on the rental value of the property even if not rented. IOM residents with property in the EU are already required to do this. Now UK residents will also be affected. 

Edited September 10, 2017 by pongo

[ballaughbiker]

I understand that Spain already has a property tax for non-residents based on a theoretical rental value but was not aware that there was a Manx tax for such as situation. 

Of course if you receive rental income off island and are resident here that is clearly taxable, but if you don't receive any income from it?

Just had a look at the gov website but there does not seem to be any reference to that situation. Got a link? 

[pongo]

http://www.isleofman.com/News/details/34046/french-tax-returns-due-by-end-of-june

It's not a Manx tax. It's that IOM residents are required to annually complete an income tax form in eg France. 

Edited September 10, 2017 by pongo

[ballaughbiker]

Thanks I was wondering why there was nothing on our tax form for such a circumstance.

[pongo]

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006069577&idArticle=LEGIARTI000006303071

[woolley]

You really need a financial representative and a property manager on the ground in each country. Not hugely expensive and worth it for the peace of mind and lack of personal hassle. When we first bought years ago, we promised ourselves we would enjoy but never let them become a worry which would defeat the object. We have stuck to the mantra over the years through the ups and downs of market values and a couple of burglaries. Life's too short. As I said, these are assets but not investments made primarily for a financial return.

[pongo]

16 minutes ago, woolley said:

You really need a financial representative and a property manager on the ground in each country. Not hugely expensive and worth it for the peace of mind and lack of personal hassle. When we first bought years ago, we promised ourselves we would enjoy but never let them become a worry which would defeat the object. We have stuck to the mantra over the years through the ups and downs of market values and a couple of burglaries. Life's too short. As I said, these are assets but not investments made primarily for a financial return.

Some of the accounting firms, especially offshore, employ specialists to help clients who have properties abroad. It can be more complicated for people resident in jurisdictions like Isle of Man, Jersey etc who often don't realise that different rules apply to them vs UK residents. Eg the requirement to complete a full income tax form. Much easier to to use an accountant who is properly au fait with the rules and who probably has a professional relationship with the tax office abroad in the event that something needs ironing out. And probably much less hassle than discovering you're non compliant when the time comes to sell and the Advocate raises the issue.

Edited September 10, 2017 by pongo

[ballaughbiker]

31 minutes ago, pongo said:

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006069577&idArticle=LEGIARTI000006303071

That appears to be applied to all non-residents of France so,say, UK residents as well. Just wondering how brexit is going to change that present position.

Edit I think you may have made that clear in your last post that I have just read. Am I right in thinking from that UK residents, once outside the EU following brexit, attain a similar status with such tax authorities as Manx residents now 'enjoy' and as a result will have to fill in a local tax return?

Edited September 10, 2017 by ballaughbiker

[pongo]

26 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said:

That appears to be applied to all non-residents of France so,say, UK residents as well. Just wondering how brexit is going to change that present position.

UK residents, unlike Isle of Man residents, are currently exempt where there is a liability because of the double taxation agreement between UK and France. But AFAIK it is membership of the Single Market which means that UK residents do not even have to complete a French tax return.

One is the requirement to complete the form at all - the other is whether there is ultimately any liability. But I am a lay-person! You would have to ask an accountant or the French tax office for a definite opinion. ETA: To be clear - I could be wrong about that distinction. 

Edited September 10, 2017 by pongo

[P.K.]

As MF's only reporter on the ground in the UK's most anti-EU town I am happy to report that yesterday I landed a 12lb 3oz Carp that just wouldn't give up. Big by our standards believe me. We let it rest in the landing net for a good 10 minutes like we do with Barbel. Happy days!

Anyway, the message on the Brexit front loud and clear is that the arrogance shown by the UK politicians in the thick of it is beyond belief. Bit of a surprise really. But then I guess the good burghers of Boston Lincs know that without cheap EU labour they take a hit in their bottom line. So like greedy bastards everywhere they want their cake and eat it too.

Bit like the West Country really who voted Brexit but want their subsidies to continue....

Just how thick are these people...?

[woody2]

On 14/09/2017 at 2:20 PM, P.K. said:

Just how thick are these people...?

not as thick as the eu how do you sort the irish border out before knowing what the future trade deal will be.....

[woody2]

uk trade with the eu is around 6% of gdp and 75% of that is services which don't attract tariffs, time to go wto....

[ballaughbiker]

The workers at Bombardier will be 'comforted' to know that they now have proof on how the USA and no doubt other worldwide markets will look after us once we are released from the EU shackles.