pongo Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) 18 hours ago, woody2 said: the moggster backed by moggmentum...... He has only fringe support at best. In the country as a whole he would seem like an oddball and a freak. His young-fogey style is a bogus affectation. Though he has been doing it for so long that he has probably forgotten. The government is clearly sinking. It is unlikely to go a full term and I doubt that there is anything the Conservative Party can now do to prevent itself from being voted out of office at the next election. The tide is going out. regardless if she goes or not, 5 more years of tory rule is gonna happen..... Governments do not rule. Edited October 5, 2017 by pongo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 minute ago, pongo said: He has only fringe support at best. In the country as a whole he would seem like an oddball and a freak. His young-fogey style is a bogus affectation. Though he has been doing it for so long that he has probably forgotten. The government is clearly sinking. It is unlikely to go a full term and I doubt that there is anything the Conservative Party can now do to prevent itself from being voted out of office at the next election. The tide is going out. the eu is scared of him getting the job, i don't think he wants it... tories won't vote for another GE so roll on 2022..... unless may stands down, i can't see anyone trying to take the job in the next 18 months.... history shows that its not that easy to get rid of a party in power.... anyway its great preparation for when labour comes to power and everyone receives a P45........ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 4 minutes ago, woody2 said: history shows that its not that easy to get rid of a party in power.... anyway its great preparation for when labour comes to power and everyone receives a P45........ The Conservative Party seems to be approaching some sort is schism - reminiscent of the mid 19th century and for similar reasons. Division within the Conservative Party is a good part of the reason why the government is losing its grip. Membership is also at an all time low and it has lost the guaranteed support of business and the City. Scare stories about the effects of a Labour govt, that tactic, isn't working. It isn't going to be about Labour getting voted in. It's going to be about the Conservatives getting voted out. Because they abandoned centrist pragmatism. The Conservative Party has been taken over by its own militant tendency. It is facing the same issues which Labour faced in the early 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 I don't think so, Pongo. Or at least not entirely. You are correct about the Conservative Party membership going down because it's literally dying. I really don't think abandoning centrist pragmatism is the problem now either. THAT is also dying on its feet because it's been done to death for over two decades and there are far too many people who perceive it doing no good for them. I don't see anyone marching on the streets demanding centrist pragmatism! The problem is that Corbyn has promised the Earth, the Moon and the stars to a lot of people who are not really interested in the economics of it all, and he is backed by some slick simplistic social media marketing that appeals to the young. They have had a raw deal so they will follow any pied piper who promises the sunny uplands.The sinister side is that there are some extremely unsavoury forces behind the faction that has seized control of Labour right now, including not a few extremist thugs in Momentum. As they say, it will be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 4 minutes ago, woolley said: The sinister side is that there are some extremely unsavoury forces behind the faction that has seized control of Labour right now, including not a few extremist thugs in Momentum. As they say, it will be interesting. There are, equally, unsavoury forces within the kooky fringe which is currently destroying the Conservative Party and undermining good government. Both fringes are weird. The pragmatic centre of British politics is where elections are always won. The party which seems least fringe and the leader who seems least weird will always win. Corbyn will win if it is between Corbyn and Mogg. Mogg comes across as supercilious and bogus. His style is an affectation but he cannot walk or talk like a normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 labour announced £300 billion+ of spending per year at its conference on top of the trillions in its manifesto, the £10 billion they may or may not raise from the rich doesn't count because the rich will of left as they did in the 70's.... it's the tories to lose but they aren't going to vote for a GE and thing will have moved on in 5 years time..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 @ Pongo: Oh well, that's different. Mogg would never win an election in a thousand years. You could put Howard Quayle up against him and Howard would win. I think you are wrong about the comparative levels of unsavoury forces in Conservative and Labour. There are some very nasty far left elements there, like those who defaced the Tory candidates posters in the election compaign and accosted MPs on the streets and jostled and spat at them. I am convinced that even Corbyn does not appreciate the scale of it. They sense their chance and they smell blood. That is why there is a split in Labour, because most of the PLP know it and want nothing to do with them. An analogy would be if the Conservatives were being driven by Britain First. By comparison the "kooky fringe" as you call it in the Tory party are pretty harmless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) 24 minutes ago, woody2 said: thing will have moved on in 5 years time..... Seems unlikely. The skids are under this government and that is unlikely to change. Especially since the party will remain divided and given that there are no new MPs with any gravitas coming to the fore. Compare the Cabinet and the ministries today, the individuals, with Mrs Thatcher's government of the 1980s. Or, equally, the Labour front bench during the 90s - in the years up to 1997. Bright young graduates and professionals are not joining the Conservative Party today. And the provincial membership increasingly resembles UKIP - b streamers, university-of-life types and the barely literate. Edited October 5, 2017 by pongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 if boris got in he would walk away from the eu, merkel knows this....... it still remains that a GE is along time away, its only just over 100 days since labour lost again..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 minute ago, pongo said: Seems unlikely. The skids are under this government and that is unlikely to change. Especially since the party will remain divided and given that there are no new MPs with any gravitas coming to the fore. Compare the Cabinet and the ministries today, the individuals, with Mrs Thatcher's government of the 1980s. Or, equally, the Labour front bench during the 90s. Bright young graduates and professionals are not joining the Conservative Party today. And the provincial membership increasingly resembles UKIP - b streamers, university-of-life types and the barely literate. i have seen no divide apart from a handful of remainers, can't see them rushing for another GE yet..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 24 minutes ago, woody2 said: if boris got in he would walk away from the eu, merkel knows this....... it still remains that a GE is along time away, its only just over 100 days since labour lost again..... And the Tory campaign was a total shambles designed by 3 people. That won't be allowed to happen again. They announced lots of cuts to benefits in an election campaign for goodness sake. They won't ever be so bad again. Yet Labour still lost! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 29 minutes ago, pongo said: Seems unlikely. The skids are under this government and that is unlikely to change. Especially since the party will remain divided and given that there are no new MPs with any gravitas coming to the fore. Compare the Cabinet and the ministries today, the individuals, with Mrs Thatcher's government of the 1980s. Or, equally, the Labour front bench during the 90s - in the years up to 1997. Bright young graduates and professionals are not joining the Conservative Party today. And the provincial membership increasingly resembles UKIP - b streamers, university-of-life types and the barely literate. The lack of gravitas is a reflection of the population generally!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 It seems the shit sandwich is going to be handed to poor old jezza. If i was him i'd let the tories keep hold of it until at least the next election after this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 I'd wager the letters falling off and the coughing fit were stage managed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 17 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said: I'd wager the letters falling off and the coughing fit were stage managed. Going for the sympathy vote no doubt. SYMPATHY! From the NASTY TORY PARTY! Nice oxymoron. Not as good as "Liberal Extremists" mind.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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