woolley Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 That's right. They take only the most pessimistic view of everything because it suits their agenda. Like the one about aeroplanes being unable to land after Brexit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, woolley said: Absolutely not. Totally different. Finance "experts" have proved their "worth" amply in the last 20 years. In general economists have tended to be more right than wrong over the past 50 years when it comes to predicting crisis. Timing is the difficulty - how long it takes for a crisis to typically materialise. And how suddenly it escalates when it does happen. Economists have so far been right in their predictions that Sterling would decline if the UK voted to leave the EU - and that this would create inflation - and that this would force the Bank to begin to increase interest rates. Next we can likely expect to begin to see an exodus from the City - which is the UK's single largest tax payer and which is the backbone of the UK economy. Especially if any transitional deal (or a full reversal) comes too late. Until Brexit the UK was the world's leading exporter of financial services. It's all very well some arguing that it should be different. But the fact is that the City pays for the UK's public services. 9 minutes ago, woolley said: They take only the most pessimistic view of everything because it suits their agenda What do you imagine that their agenda is about, these pessimistic experts? Edited November 2, 2017 by pongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Economists have so far been right in their predictions that sterling would decline if the UK voted to leave the EU. Self-fulfilling prophecy. They create negative sentiment. They also said the sky would fall in the day after a Leave vote. You cannot expect to see an exodus from the City. Wait and see. London will still be the pre-eminent financial centre. This is not about trade and finance. It is a political rearguard action from globalising forces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Just now, woolley said: You cannot expect to see an exodus from the City. Wait and see. Wait and see is wishful thinking, hoping for the best. 1 minute ago, woolley said: It is a political rearguard action from globalising forces. TJ territory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 There is no more basis for negativity than there is for optimism. Nothing has happened yet. It's just that there are massive international political interests vested in remain. Are you seriously denying that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, woolley said: There is no more basis for negativity than there is for optimism. Nothing has happened yet. It's just that there are massive international political interests vested in remain. Are you seriously denying that? Things are looking very uncertain. And uncertainty is always dangerous for business and the economy. Change should always be gradual. This, by contrast, is a leap in the dark. Nobody sensible would support it. The entire thing is utterly stupid - chaos for no good reason. And the simplistic arguments for Brexit, sold on lies, outside interference and dodgy money, simply don't stack up. Especially the silly nonsense about "globalisation" etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Biggest lie was the one that took us in. "Common Market". Yeah. Been a running sore ever since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Just now, woolley said: Biggest lie was the one that took us in. "Common Market". Yeah. Been a running sore ever since. Nobody serious supports Brexit. Nobody with any sort of strategic outlook is in favour of this deliberate leap in the dark. It's utterly stupid. Gradual closer union was inevitable - especially and essentially with the adoption of the €. There was certainly a good case to keep pushing and negotiating for the UK and others to be part of a looser federation. But Brexit is dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 not one economists has ever been right about any major financial changes..... as for these reports, they contain good and bad, anybody that thinks its a good idea to publish weaknesses in say national security wants sectioning..... labour won a non binding vote on release but not one tory voted. they are using some old law, this is the same party that want these old laws removed why would anyone would want the eu to know the uk's strengths and weaknesses during negations? apart from to destroy the uk..... should just publish fully redacted copies, labour aren't in government, its got sod all to do with them..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 8 minutes ago, woody2 said: why would anyone would want the eu to know the uk's strengths and weaknesses during negations? apart from to destroy the uk..... The EU already has the information. This is about letting the public see it. The point is to undermine the case for Brexit. Nobody sensible now supports Brexit. Everyone sensible wishes it wasn't happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, pongo said: The EU already has the information. This is about letting the public see it. The point is to undermine the case for Brexit. Nobody sensible now supports Brexit. Everyone sensible wishes it wasn't happening. I disagree. The EU is now a failed experiment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 1 minute ago, pongo said: The EU already has the information. This is about letting the public see it. The point is to undermine the case for Brexit. Nobody sensible now supports Brexit. Everyone sensible wishes it wasn't happening. Pongo, may I ask a question... If / when Brexit actually happens, will you then 'get behind it' and attempt to make the best of it even though you disagreed with the original decision - or do you think that it is more likely that you will remain in active opposition to Brexit forever? (I'm being serious not flippant) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, Jasper said: I disagree. The EU is now a failed experiment. The EU is all about keeping certain individuals in a very comfortable lifestyle. They care not a jot about you and I 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, pongo said: The EU already has the information. This is about letting the public see it. The point is to undermine the case for Brexit. Nobody sensible now supports Brexit. Everyone sensible wishes it wasn't happening. No. I am sensible and I support it. I meet people every day who are eminently sensible, support it and just cannot wait for it to be sorted to get the uncertainty out of the markets. There are cases to be made either way of course, but you are equating not agreeing with your view of the world with not being sensible and that is just ridiculous. Your problem is that you are becoming hysterical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Jasper said: I disagree. The EU is now a failed experiment. Its failure is not a certainty. And at its best it is still deeply routed in ideals of reason. But that's not the point. The point is that Brexit is the worst possible way of standing back from closer union - even if that were a sensible longer term objective. As I said, it's a leap in the dark. The sensible thing might have been to gradually negotiate some sort of partial distance. Previously the UK enjoyed a best of both worlds scenario - part of the EU but not part of the €. 29 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said: If / when Brexit actually happens, will you then 'get behind it' and attempt to make the best of it even though you disagreed with the original decision I would hope to always try to make the best of any circumstance but I am always going to believe that Brexit is a stupid mistake funded by dirty money and propagandised by dark forces. So no, I won't be getting behind it. There is no reason to get behind it. I am a European. Edited November 2, 2017 by pongo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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