Jasper Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 11 minutes ago, Neil Down said: The EU is all about keeping certain individuals in a very comfortable lifestyle. They care not a jot about you and I Certainly not about me for a rather obvious reason. Thankfully populism is resulting in the restoration of national pride and identity that is increasingly overwhelming the ambition for a single European state, and the restoration of individual nations with their own laws and soon an end of the awful ECHR that is so widely hated now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 43 minutes ago, pongo said: The EU already has the information. This is about letting the public see it. The point is to undermine the case for Brexit. Nobody sensible now supports Brexit. Everyone sensible wishes it wasn't happening. the eu does not have this information, apart from a few nutter remainiacs everyone now supports leaving and the uk is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 19 minutes ago, pongo said: Its failure is not a certainty. And at its best it is still deeply routed in ideals of reason. But that's not the point. The point is that Brexit is the worst possible way of standing back from closer union - even if that were a sensible longer term objective. As I said, it's a leap in the dark. The sensible thing might have been to gradually negotiate some sort of partial distance. Previously the UK enjoyed a best of both worlds scenario - part of the EU but not part of the €. I would hope to always try to make the best of any circumstance but I am always going to believe that Brexit is a stupid mistake funded by dirty money and propagandised by dark forces. So no, I won't be getting behind it. There is no reason to get behind it. I am a European. nutter remainiac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, woody2 said: apart from a few nutter remainiacs everyone now supports leaving and the uk is... It's a leap in the dark. Even if there were a case for leaving the EU or establishing greater distance, the Brexit Britain now faces is a disaster of uncertainty and chaos. Nobody sensible supports it. Best case scenario, and looking increasingly likely, it's going to be Brexit in name only. And you know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, pongo said: It's a leap in the dark. Even if there were a case for leaving the EU or establishing greater distance, the Brexit Britain now faces is a disaster of uncertainty and chaos. Nobody sensible supports it. Best case scenario, and looking increasingly likely, it's going to be Brexit in name only. And you know it. your just a loony staying in the eu is a bigger risk, the decision has been made, get with the program or do one..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, woody2 said: the decision has been made, get with the program or do one..... But no decisions have been made. Certainly not in public. That's part of the reason why Brexit is looking less and less certain. All that we know is that the outcome probably has to be at least called Brexit. But probably in name only. Both of the political parties know that they are going to have to look both ways to avoid alienating about 50% of the electorate. With a softer Brexit clearly being the less divisive of the two strategies. As you will know, the Cabinet is basically weighted in favour of Remain. With a leader who supported Remain. And probably the next leader too. A govt which is unlikely to stay in office for a full term. And which has lost the support of the centre ground - which is where UK elections are won. Clearly there is still everything to play for. Edited November 2, 2017 by pongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 1 hour ago, woolley said: No. I am sensible..... Well, in your opinion at any rate! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 84% of the population voted for candidates standing on a Brexit platform at the general election. They stood with gritted teeth of course. @ Pongo: Brexit is a stupid mistake funded by dirty money and propagandised by dark forces. Oh, the irony. The EU is driven by dark forces but is funded by our money. I appreciate we will never agree because I believe in strong independent nation states and you are a dyed in the wool globalist who sees no value in them. To deny that there are intelligent people on the other side who think deeply about these matters is totally crass. I am a European too, but Europe is not a country and, thankfully, it never will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 16 minutes ago, pongo said: But no decisions have been made. Certainly not in public. That's part of the reason why Brexit is looking less and less certain. All that we know is that the outcome probably has to be at least called Brexit. But probably in name only. Both of the political parties know that they are going to have to look both ways to avoid alienating about 50% of the electorate. With a softer Brexit clearly being the less divisive of the two strategies. As you will know, the Cabinet is basically weighted in favour of Remain. With a leader who supported Remain. And probably the next leader too. A govt which is unlikely to stay in office for a full term. And which has lost the support of the centre ground - which is where UK elections are won. Clearly there is still everything to play for. yawn.... have you thought about joining the libdums? the last election clearly worked for them uk has voted get over it...... roll on march 2019 when the uk leaves..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 9 minutes ago, P.K. said: Well, in your opinion at any rate! Very droll, PK. Such a wag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 box of straws for pongo...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 8 minutes ago, woolley said: I appreciate we will never agree because I believe in strong independent nation states and you are a dyed in the wool globalist who sees no value in them. To deny that there are intelligent people on the other side who think deeply about these matters is totally crass. I am a European too, but Europe is not a country and, thankfully, it never will be. There may be sensible people who support leaving the EU. But there are no sensible people who support Brexit, the way it is happening. Brexit, the way it is happening, is clearly dumb. That's why people like Woody support it. And the Daily Express. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, woolley said: Very droll, PK. Such a wag. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) Political dynamite. Tories just lost a vote in the Commons. They now have to publish the official government reports on the effect of Brexit on 58 different industries. I understand they are a tale of unmitigated woe and probable economic disaster. The result of the reports, which were never intended to be seen, especially by the public, and other industries, will be a death blow for the whole Brexit process. It will now start to unravel. More importantly it will show that May, Davis, Boris and others have lied, repeatedly. They knew what a disaster it would be economically, just ignored it. That's the end of this government. General Election in the offing, as Tory moderates, the Nationalists and the DUP join Labour in a vote of no confidence. https://news.sky.com/story/government-loses-vote-on-publishing-brexit-impact-assessments-11108917 The only reason the Tories didn't vote was that they knew they'd lose. I suppose the only two things outstanding are, will May go or be pushed, and who will be the next leader. And will Labour wait for the new leader to be elected before causing a confidence vote and election. i think she will resign on health grounds, and Labour won't want a new leader in situ who traditionally gets a poll boost and honeymoon period. Odds on Boris, Rees Mogg, Gove? Edited November 2, 2017 by John Wright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, pongo said: There may be sensible people who support leaving the EU. But there are no sensible people who support Brexit, the way it is happening. Brexit, the way it is happening, is clearly dumb. That's why people like Woody support it. And the Daily Express. It is too soon to judge "the way it is happening". It isn't happening until it has happened. Currently it's all froth created by vested interests on all sides. It isn't yet "out there". Given your posting record on a variety of subjects I am surprised at your simplistic, dogmatic view of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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