pongo Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 9 minutes ago, woody2 said: its not a deal..... Use your good eye Horatio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 41 minutes ago, pongo said: Use your good eye Horatio. have the 27+ uk signed anything? long way to go with lots of fake drama it keeps the idiots buying papers if nothing else...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 (edited) It’s daft to say that this is not a deal. Of course it’s a deal. It’s not the final deal - but it’s a deal which definitely marks the way ahead. It’s a positive thing at last. It’s actually lots of deals if you look at what has gone on this week. And the 27 have agreed it by appointing those negotiatiating on their behalf. I agree about the fake drama bit - but that’s how you bring people along and isolate self indulgent extreme opinion. Britain is where it could have been 6 months ago - having finally given up on all of the silly red line positions. The people who have been pushing for a no deal Brexit either challenge Mrs May now or shut up. Because this is the last point at which walking away is a viable option. She seems to have done well to make progress given all of the dissenting voices. Transition period will be the next hard Brexit red line which will be abandoned or somehow renamed. Norway outcome looking increasingly likely (but called something else). Plus probably EFTA. Edited December 8, 2017 by pongo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 1 hour ago, woody2 said: have the 27+ uk signed anything? long way to go with lots of fake drama it keeps the idiots buying papers if nothing else...... A wise man once told me no-one reads newspapers nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 1 hour ago, the stinking enigma said: A wise man once told me no-one reads newspapers nowadays. Rupert Murdoch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 2 hours ago, pongo said: It’s daft to say that this is not a deal. Of course it’s a deal. It’s not the final deal - but it’s a deal which definitely marks the way ahead. It’s a positive thing at last. It’s actually lots of deals if you look at what has gone on this week. And the 27 have agreed it by appointing those negotiatiating on their behalf. I agree about the fake drama bit - but that’s how you bring people along and isolate self indulgent extreme opinion. Britain is where it could have been 6 months ago - having finally given up on all of the silly red line positions. The people who have been pushing for a no deal Brexit either challenge Mrs May now or shut up. Because this is the last point at which walking away is a viable option. She seems to have done well to make progress given all of the dissenting voices. Transition period will be the next hard Brexit red line which will be abandoned or somehow renamed. Norway outcome looking increasingly likely (but called something else). Plus probably EFTA. veto..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 16 minutes ago, woody2 said: veto..... The transitional period will be structured such that it effectively runs until any vetos are dealt with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 2 hours ago, pongo said: The transitional period will be structured such that it effectively runs until any vetos are dealt with. nah-any transition needs to be over before the next election..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 (edited) 20 minutes ago, woody2 said: nah-any transition needs to be over before the next election..... Only Liam Fox believes that. It's another of his silly red lines. But where is he anywhere after this week? There is not going to be a deadline for reaching and implementing an agreement. An election will make no difference since this will mostly be for the Civil Service once the main political issues are settled. What matters the most is that, after this week, a no-deal hard Brexit is off the table for good. Sensible people from both sides of the argument can get behind that. Edited December 8, 2017 by pongo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 long way to go, until it signed anything could happen including no deal, even remainer want a deal done before the next election, its the timetable already set by the tories, you are also forgetting that if a free trade deal is signed there might be no or very little transition...... it also depends on who is leading the tories after march 2019..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 (edited) The thing will have its own momentum by then and the arguments will have changed. There would be no support for going back over all of this old ground again. It would be politically toxic. Because that would mean changing direction again. Business and the economy now needs certainty such that it can begin to make investment decisions. And you know that this decision has come from the top. This agreement to move towards a trade deal means that whatever happens the no-deal Brexit movement is finished tonight. Edited December 8, 2017 by pongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 toxic would be seen to be still under control of the eu and the tories know it..... eu is petrified the uk walks away hence they have backed down.... stilll a long way to go... one thing is the failed remoaners have lost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, woody2 said: one thing is the failed remoaners have lost You’re living in the past already. Those were yesterday’s arguments. People who supported Remain and most people who supported Leave are on the same team now. ETA: hard Brexit populism will have no centre from now - it’s too nebulous a perspective for anyone to campaign around leaving a bit more. It’s done. Edited December 8, 2017 by pongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 face it....it's over woody. c'est la vie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 53 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said: face it....it's over woody. c'est la vie yes the leavers won, no 2nd referendum, no referendum on the deal, out of the eu... and if they fail they'll pay at the ballet box unlike the unelected eu load of fuss about nothing.... remainers should be hanged for treason....... . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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