So the UK is finished says Theresa Mayhem

[Manximus Aururaneus]

3 minutes ago, pongo said:

My citizenship is also about to be altered - without so much as asking me. I am not comfortable with that - it does not seem democratic.

If the issue is really about British citizenship then all British citizens should be given the chance to decide. In a new referendum. Not only those registered to vote in the UK.

What is it that you think that (as a Manxman?) you are currently a citizen of?

[pongo]

5 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

What is it that you think that (as a Manxman?) you are currently a citizen of?

There is no such thing as a Manx Passport. The Passport Office will confirm this if you ask them. Isle of Man passports are British Passports. All Manx people are British and the vast majority are also EU citizens under Maastricht.

If you believe that leaving the EU is about citizenship then you must agree that the majority here are having their citizenship changed without being given the democratic chance to voice their opinion about that.

You cannot have it both ways. Though it is worth pointing out that our UK ancestors did not have any democratic input in the Act of Union which created the concept in the first place. The entire argument is therefore moot.

Edited December 24, 2017 by pongo

[thesultanofsheight]

5 minutes ago, pongo said:

My citizenship is also about to be altered - without so much as asking me. I am not comfortable with that - it does not seem democratic.

If the issue is really about British citizenship then all British citizens should be given the chance to decide. In a new referendum. Not only those registered to vote in the UK.

Well said. We’re having all our travel rights taken off us by what is now increasingly looking like a Tory Taliban of English toffs like Jacob Rees-Mogg and Boris Johnson who want to isolate the British from the rest of the world. A second referendum on the impact of all this needs to be called. The Blue passports situation is a joke which will seriously impact on the rights of younger British people to live and work and travel freely around the EU. 

[woody2]

10 minutes ago, pongo said:

My citizenship is also about to be altered - without so much as asking me. I am not comfortable with that - it does not seem democratic.

If the issue is really about British citizenship then all British citizens should be given the chance to decide. In a new referendum. Not only those registered to vote in the UK.

which has zero to do with the uk, blame the chief minister of the time......

lets not forget iomg pay sod all as well....

[woody2]

3 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

Well said. We’re having all our travel rights taken off us by what is now increasingly looking like a Tory Taliban of English toffs like Jacob Rees-Mogg and Boris Johnson who want to isolate the British from the rest of the world. A second referendum on the impact of all this needs to be called. The Blue passports situation is a joke which will seriously impact on the rights of younger British people to live and work and travel freely around the EU. 

then get iomg to start paying into the eu........

[pongo]

TBH - I think that making the passports blue is an irrelevance. The govt is throwing a bone to the fundamentalist to distract them from BINO.

[Manximus Aururaneus]

4 minutes ago, pongo said:

There is no such thing as a Manx Passport. The Passport Office will confirm this if you ask them. Isle of Man passports are British Passports. All Manx people are British and the vast majority are also EU citizens under Maastricht.

If you believe that leaving the EU is about citizenship then you must agree that the majority here are having their citizenship changed without being given the democratic chance to voice their opinion about that.

You cannot have it both ways. Though it is worth pointing out that our UK ancestors did not have any democratic input in the Act of Union which created the concept in the first place. The entire argument is therefore moot.

I sorry Pongo but I must ask the question again - What is it that you think that (as a Manxman?) you are currently a citizen of?

[woody2]

Just now, pongo said:

TBH - I think that making the passports blue is an irrelevance. The govt is throwing a bone to the fundamentalist to distract them from BINO.

the colour has nothing to do with it, only heard the remoaners banging on about it.....

zero cost as well.....

[pongo]

Just now, Manximus Aururaneus said:

I sorry Pongo but I must ask the question again - What is it that you think that (as a Manxman?) you are currently a citizen of?

What is it that you object to being a citizen of?

[Manximus Aururaneus]

1 minute ago, pongo said:

What is it that you object to being a citizen of?

That's what I am asking you - what do you think it is? Can you describe what you think it is? I cannot. 

I therefore object because nobody has told me (and nobody seems able to tell me) what 'it' is.

[thesultanofsheight]

11 minutes ago, pongo said:

TBH - I think that making the passports blue is an irrelevance. The govt is throwing a bone to the fundamentalist to distract them from BINO.

Of course they are but they have successfully played to the lowest possible denominator which is all they had to do. It just shows you how this whole campaign has been led from the start. At least HMRC have now piled in on Arron Banks and the other Brexit hard liners with big tax actions against them as a physical push back. 

Edited December 24, 2017 by thesultanofsheight

[pongo]

7 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

That's what I am asking you - what do you think it is? Can you describe what you think it is? I cannot. 

I therefore object because nobody has told me (and nobody seems able to tell me) what 'it' is.

If you are looking for general definitions around citizenship then you would probably be best to start at Google. Wikipedia has some good stuff.

Your argument that you were not asked whether you wanted your citizenship changed when you become an EU citizen is cancelled out by the equal and opposite case - that we were not all asked whether we wanted that citizenship removed. It’s the same. Stalemate.

Edited December 24, 2017 by pongo

[Manximus Aururaneus]

Just now, pongo said:

If you are looking for general definitions around citizenship then you would probably be best to start at Google. Wikipedia has some good stuff.

Your argument that you were not asked whether you wanted your citizenship changed when you become an EU citizen are cancelled out by the equal and opposite case - that we were not all asked whether we wanted that citizenship removed. It’s the same. Stalemate.

I think, to be blunt, that you cannot give me even the vaguest description of what being a 'Citizen of the EU' actually means - I openly admit that I cannot do so.

But if you are unable or unwilling to point me to a description of what 'EU Citizenship' actually means, perhaps you can answer this one;

How, as a Manx passport holder, do you exercise your democratic voting rights as a 'Citizen of the EU' ?

[pongo]

8 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

How, as a Manx passport holder, do you exercise your democratic voting rights as a 'Citizen of the EU' ?

But citizenship does not always afford voting rights.

Voting rights are attached to residency. Many British citizens living outside of the UK have no way of exercising their democratic voting rights as British citizens ( ... in reality, more correctly,  there is no voting right attached to citizenship - only to residency).

You seem to be struggling with concepts around citizenship in general TBH.

Edited December 24, 2017 by pongo

[Manximus Aururaneus]

22 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

Well said. We’re having all our travel rights taken off us by what is now increasingly looking like a Tory Taliban of English toffs like Jacob Rees-Mogg and Boris Johnson who want to isolate the British from the rest of the world. A second referendum on the impact of all this needs to be called. The Blue passports situation is a joke which will seriously impact on the rights of younger British people to live and work and travel freely around the EU. 

Of course leaving the EU will mean that - Leaving the EU is what was voted for. It will also restrict the rights of citizens of other EU countries to live and work in the UK - Again what was voted for. Age is irrelevant (as you well know). The Blue passport is a consequence not a causation (as again you well know).

The FEANI register is a good example of demonstrating why you are (still) scaremongering - The EU has 28 (soon to be 27) of the 195 countries in the world as member states - The European FEANI register does not have 27 or 28 members - it has 34.