woody2 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 10 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said: Strawman and avoiding the question. yes you are..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, woody2 said: yes you are..... I asked first... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 4 hours ago, RIchard Britten said: Usual #woodynonsense. I'm out. Yeah... How vain the earthworm..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 minute ago, quilp said: Yeah... How vain the earthworm..? Why don't you ask him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Hey woody2, how vain is this earthworm? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, woody2 said: £1.2 trillion? labour have already said they would borrow the money, from whom is the question..... Where do you imagine that govts borrow money from? And who gives the lenders the right to create that liquidity? Commercial banks create liquidity by lending it - part of what they create they take as profit. Ever wondered whether the govt (the people - the schools and hospitals) should not be taking a bigger share of that profit? Or maybe even all of it? Govts can equally create liquidity by simply spending it - if they choose to. And inflation need not be an issue provided that the same quantity of liquidity is removed via taxation (effectively destroying it). And you have to pay your taxes in the govt currency - so there is no way of refusing to use the govt money. Perhaps you still believe in a “household budget”model of government money? But that is not how modern economics works - as QE demonstrated - and as this article at the Bank of England website explains in more detail Money creation in the modern economy - The Bank of England Quote This article explains how the majority of money in the modern economy is created by commercial banks making loans. Edited January 19, 2018 by pongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 19 hours ago, pongo said: Where do you imagine that govts borrow money from? And who gives the lenders the right to create that liquidity? Commercial banks create liquidity by lending it - part of what they create they take as profit. Ever wondered whether the govt (the people - the schools and hospitals) should not be taking a bigger share of that profit? Or maybe even all of it? Govts can equally create liquidity by simply spending it - if they choose to. And inflation need not be an issue provided that the same quantity of liquidity is removed via taxation (effectively destroying it). And you have to pay your taxes in the govt currency - so there is no way of refusing to use the govt money. Perhaps you still believe in a “household budget”model of government money? But that is not how modern economics works - as QE demonstrated - and as this article at the Bank of England website explains in more detail Money creation in the modern economy - The Bank of England it wasn't QE that labour proposed so your point is pointless it was private finance= pfi....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 23 hours ago, RIchard Britten said: I asked first... no you didn't..... 23 hours ago, quilp said: Hey woody2, how vain is this earthworm? he's more of a maggot..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) Emmanuel Macron: French would 'probably' vote to leave EU Quote France would "probably" have voted to leave the EU if it had held an in/out referendum, according to the country's leader. Emmanuel Macron attributed the UK's decision to leave the EU to British voters' loss of faith in globalisation and unrestricted free markets. The French President suggested there is "always a risk" with votes such as Britain's 2016 referendum, when asking the public "just 'yes' or 'no' in a very complicated context". Asked whether a Leave or Remain vote in France could have ended with the same result, Mr Macron told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show: "Yes, probably. Probably in a similar context. But our context was very different so I don't want to take any bets." Mr Macron, as a committed supporter of European integration, added he would fight "very hard" to keep France in the EU if it were to hold a referendum on membership of the bloc. He added: "It's a mistake when you just ask 'yes' or 'no', when you don't ask people how to improve the situation and to explain how to improve it." Offering his interpretation of Britain's vote to leave the EU, Mr Macron said: "My understanding is that middle-classes and working-classes - and especially the oldest in your country - decided that the recent decades were not in their favour. "And that the adjustments made by both [the] EU and globalisation - for me it was a mix of both of them - was not in their favour. "And second I think one of the reasons was precisely an organisation of our EU probably which gets too far in terms of freedom without cohesion. "Towards free market without any rules and any convergence." Also appearing on the show, Labour's shadow chancellor John McDonnell claimed he agreed with Mr Macron's assessment that Brexit was due to a sense that "neoliberalism has alienated people". The French President, who visited Britain last week for a major UK-France summit, also used the interview to repeat his insistence that full access to the EU's single market for UK financial services "is not feasible" after Brexit. But he did claim the UK will secure a bespoke trade deal, although only in the context of preserving the bloc's single market. The Prime Minister has repeatedly outlined her wish for a post-Brexit trade deal including both goods and services. Mr McDonnell suggested Mr Macron was being "fairly hard-nosed" about the EU's approach to UK financial services as he predicted a "softening" once Brexit negotiations on a future relationship begin. Mr Macron's suggestion is not the first time he has warned French voters might seek a "Frexit". Shortly before being elected to the presidency last year, in which he came head-to-head with eurosceptic far-right campaigner Marine Le Pen, Mr Macron told how people in France were impatient and so angry that the "dysfunction" of the EU was "not sustainable". Mr Macron has insisted the bloc is in need of reform and vowed to make it one of his main areas of focus, laying out plans for a Europe-wide finance minister as part of a process of deeper integration. (c) Sky News 2018: Emmanuel Macron: French would 'probably' vote to Edited January 21, 2018 by woody2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 45 minutes ago, woody2 said: What is it about what Macron is saying that makes you smiley giggle and snigger Woody? Or is it just the Tourettes again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 10 minutes ago, pongo said: What is it about what Macron is saying that makes you smiley giggle and snigger Woody? Or is it just the Tourettes again? the lack of democracy in the eu, can't let people have a referendum can they..... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 1 hour ago, woody2 said: the lack of democracy in the eu, can't let people have a referendum can they..... Democracy would be awful. Mob rule. That’s why government is also about a constitutional system of checks and balances. In France, a huge number of people vote more or less Nazi every election. They’re mostly terrible people. The worst sort of nationalists. The same in the Netherlands. It’s quite right that they are not allowed into power - that a coalition of better people works to keep them from government. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Aren't people actually missing the point that Macron is making? The way I read it he is actually saying that asking a simple yes or no, in or out question for a complex issue is the problematic issue. He sees the answer as reform of the EU, asking people whether they want reform would likely give different results to the simple in/out question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Reform the EU? Like Gorbachev said the USSR needed reforming as it collapsed around his ears. Macron: The watered down and reheated Blair with a touch of garlic hasn't dared to lift a finger at home yet. Let's see how he fares when he tries to get his reforms past the French trade unions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 2 hours ago, pongo said: Democracy would be awful. Mob rule. That’s why government is also about a constitutional system of checks and balances. In France, a huge number of people vote more or less Nazi every election. They’re mostly terrible people. The worst sort of nationalists. The same in the Netherlands. It’s quite right that they are not allowed into power - that a coalition of better people works to keep them from government. I'm sorry but you can't get away with that. Large percentages of people who vote for nationalist parties are "mostly terrible people"? Really? So where else do ordinary people, many of whom are traditionally moderates, turn when all of the mainstream politicians with their liberal, globalising agenda have presided over a situation where many feel like foreigners in their own neighbourhoods, having to cope with the attendant crime and social dislocation? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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