So the UK is finished says Theresa Mayhem

[pongo]

14 minutes ago, woolley said:

So where else do ordinary people, many of whom are traditionally moderates, turn

Moderates don’t vote for Nazis. Though many “ordinary people” did during the 30s and 40s. They were wrong then and they are wrong now. The same.

Simplistic populism appeals to people’s worst instincts and a stupid belief in easy answers. It’s a lie. Nationalism, in general, the same.

Edited January 21, 2018 by pongo

[woolley]

But you didn't answer the question. Are 13.3% of German voters and 33.9% of French voters as in recent elections mostly terrible people? Does this not tell you that there is something fundamentally wrong with the way you see the future?

Edited January 21, 2018 by woolley

[woody2]

12 hours ago, pongo said:

Democracy would be awful. Mob rule. That’s why government is also about a constitutional system of checks and balances.

In France, a huge number of people vote more or less Nazi every election. They’re mostly terrible people. The worst sort of nationalists. The same in the Netherlands. It’s quite right that they are not allowed into power - that a coalition of better people works to keep them from government. 

#eu

[woody2]

12 hours ago, mojomonkey said:

Aren't people actually missing the point that Macron is making? The way I read it he is actually saying that asking a simple yes or no, in or out question for a complex issue is the problematic issue. He sees the answer as reform of the EU, asking people whether they want reform would likely give different results to the simple in/out question.

no. its politician speak for your not getting a vote, it worked for blair.....

as for reform see what "call me dave" got, the eu has a clear agenda and outcome, not allowing people to vote will backfire.......

[woody2]

9 hours ago, pongo said:

Moderates don’t vote for Nazis. Though many “ordinary people” did during the 30s and 40s. They were wrong then and they are wrong now. The same.

Simplistic populism appeals to people’s worst instincts and a stupid belief in easy answers. It’s a lie. Nationalism, in general, the same.

what's the difference between the nazis and the soviets that run the eu.......

[woody2]

in other news......

UK growth upgrade could 'dwarf' Brexit hit

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42769090

 

[RIchard Britten]

So the wheels have truly fallen off the UKIP Trojan Horse:

https://news.sky.com/story/ukip-deputy-margot-parker-quits-and-tells-leader-henry-bolton-to-go-11217970

Saying that they had already served their purpose for whipping the "masses" into a frenzy, so their end was inevitable.

 

[woody2]

11 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said:

So the wheels have truly fallen off the UKIP Trojan Horse:

https://news.sky.com/story/ukip-deputy-margot-parker-quits-and-tells-leader-henry-bolton-to-go-11217970

Saying that they had already served their purpose for whipping the "masses" into a frenzy, so their end was inevitable.

 

#whocares

uk has sir nige, that's all they need......

[twinkle]

On ‎21‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 10:37 PM, woolley said:

Reform the EU? Like Gorbachev said the USSR needed reforming as it collapsed around his ears. Macron: The watered down and reheated Blair with a touch of garlic hasn't dared to lift a finger at home yet. Let's see how he fares when he tries to get his reforms past the French trade unions.

this from CAPITAL and CONFLICT.
 "So let’s look at our neighbours on the other side today. Far more significant changes are afoot to our east.

The EU’s ramshackle shackles are looking fragile this week. Remember, as each month passes, the EU itself weakens. And with it, so does Britain’s negotiating opponent.

If you think like this, it buys into a false narrative. Trade is by definition mutually beneficial, otherwise it wouldn’t happen. So the Brexit negotiations are not actually antagonistic. Only in the minds of politicians looking for a show. To the rest of us, the story is simple. The more restrictions, the less well off we are.

Unfortunately, most people do buy into the false narrative. As though one side’s gain is another side’s loss. And that widespread belief is what makes the EU’s weakening position relevant to negotiations. Because the British are pushing for trade while the EU is against it.

The inconsistencies to total confusion. One minute the French president says “Britain will secure a bespoke trade deal after Brexit,” and the next ”EU sources have warned of bureaucratic delays, legal questions and political opposition from France, which wants to drive home its Brexit business advantage, delaying an early deal.”

The current sticking point in the negotiations is incredibly ironic. The EU says Britain can’t have close trade ties without accept freedom of movement. That’s precisely the issue which is causing enormous trouble in Europe as it is. Freedom of movement has been suspended on many borders. And the political change favouring less movement continues.

French President Emnmanuel Macron admitted that the French would vote for Brexit. This is a terrible twist of his words, by the way. His actual point was that, if the French were in the position of the British, they would vote to leave the EU. But they’re not, so they won’t.

Still, the admission signals several important things. The people of Europe do not blame Britain for wanting to get out. They just begrudge them having the opportunity to do so. Hence the desire to punish Britain. Jealousy.

Macron explained that the British had voted for Brexit because “a lot of losers” of globalisation had “decided it was not for them”.

Huh? That makes no sense. The EU is a protectionist bloc, not a pro-trade one. It has extraordinarily high barriers of trade, which the British want to escape. The EU is trying to prevent the UK from making trade deals with countries. The EU is rejecting the UK’s desire to continue trading.

The British people want to be part of the world, not just part of the EU at the expense of everywhere else.

The real reasons for Brexit are all over the news. And they’re from inside the EU".

Edited January 23, 2018 by twinkle

[RIchard Britten]

2 minutes ago, twinkle said:

 So let’s look at our neighbours on the other side today. Far more significant changes are afoot to our east.

The EU’s ramshackle shackles are looking fragile this week. Remember, as each month passes, the EU itself weakens. And with it, so does Britain’s negotiating opponent.

If you think like this, it buys into a false narrative. Trade is by definition mutually beneficial, otherwise it wouldn’t happen. So the Brexit negotiations are not actually antagonistic. Only in the minds of politicians looking for a show. To the rest of us, the story is simple. The more restrictions, the less well off we are.

Unfortunately, most people do buy into the false narrative. As though one side’s gain is another side’s loss. And that widespread belief is what makes the EU’s weakening position relevant to negotiations. Because the British are pushing for trade while the EU is against it.

The inconsistencies to total confusion. One minute the French president says “Britain will secure a bespoke trade deal after Brexit,” and the next ”EU sources have warned of bureaucratic delays, legal questions and political opposition from France, which wants to drive home its Brexit business advantage, delaying an early deal.”

The current sticking point in the negotiations is incredibly ironic. The EU says Britain can’t have close trade ties without accept freedom of movement. That’s precisely the issue which is causing enormous trouble in Europe as it is. Freedom of movement has been suspended on many borders. And the political change favouring less movement continues.

French President Emnmanuel Macron admitted that the French would vote for Brexit. This is a terrible twist of his words, by the way. His actual point was that, if the French were in the position of the British, they would vote to leave the EU. But they’re not, so they won’t.

Still, the admission signals several important things. The people of Europe do not blame Britain for wanting to get out. They just begrudge them having the opportunity to do so. Hence the desire to punish Britain. Jealousy.

Macron explained that the British had voted for Brexit because “a lot of losers” of globalisation had “decided it was not for them”.

Huh? That makes no sense. The EU is a protectionist bloc, not a pro-trade one. It has extraordinarily high barriers of trade, which the British want to escape. The EU is trying to prevent the UK from making trade deals with countries. The EU is rejecting the UK’s desire to continue trading.

The British people want to be part of the world, not just part of the EU at the expense of everywhere else.

The real reasons for Brexit are all over the news. And they’re from inside the EU.

Those sentences look far to..."normal" for you.

Where did you copy and paste that from?

 

Don't worry about it, a quick Google search found the answer:

https://www.capitalandconflict.com/brexit/losers-of-globalisation-are-in-the-eu/

Edited January 23, 2018 by RIchard Britten

[twinkle]

Just now, RIchard Britten said:

Those sentences look far to..."normal" for you.

 

Where did you copy and paste that from?

GFY.

[Bobbie Bobster]

8 minutes ago, twinkle said:

GFY.

Gentlemen's FortnightlY - sister publication to GQ?

Edited January 23, 2018 by Bobbie Bobster

[RIchard Britten]

12 minutes ago, twinkle said:

GFY.

Nicely edited post...

[woody2]

not another one.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42788849

richard must be so pleased......

[quilp]

53 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said:

Nicely edited post...

To be fair RIchard, twinks did indicate right at the start of that post that it was taken from elsewhere and not his own words.