Freggyragh Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 May is running out of time. She has to keep working with the DUP to make sure there is no devolved assembly in NI to discuss what Brexit will mean there, and there won’t be a second IndyRef in Scotland until that becomes clear. Everything hinges on the nutters in the bowler hats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 12 minutes ago, Freggyragh said: May is running out of time. She has to keep working with the DUP to make sure there is no devolved assembly in NI to discuss what Brexit will mean there, and there won’t be a second IndyRef in Scotland until that becomes clear. Everything hinges on the nutters in the bowler hats. you clearly missed the supreme courts judgement that devolved administrations had no say over exit....... try harder next time..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Only mr benn can save us now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said: Only mr benn can save us now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 keep hearing rumours of a new pro-remain centre ground party been formed a few labour mp's who think they are going to be deselected and 1 or 2 tories...... pro-remain labour mp's have managed to get 3% of the labour membership to support them could get interesting....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) mad max...... bring it on...... Edited February 20, 2018 by woody2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) Have you stopped pretending now Woody? Just throwing out random thoughts like a parody of a lunatic high on Alex Jones vids. Where are Woolley and Quilp? They’re closest we have to sentinent brexiters. Haven’t they got any good news brexit stories to share? Edited February 20, 2018 by Freggyragh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Positive stories on Brexit? Lol. You wouldn't believe them anyway! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Freggyragh said: Have you stopped pretending now Woody? Just throwing out random thoughts like a parody of a lunatic high on Alex Jones vids. Where are Woolley and Quilp? They’re closest we have to sentinent brexiters. Haven’t they got any good news brexit stories to share? look up what dd said today...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 hour ago, quilp said: Positive stories on Brexit? Lol. You wouldn't believe them anyway! One substantiated example of a law that will change for the general good, a net saving somewhere, an improvement in the UKs trading position, an opportunity for growth, an increase in prosperity, influence, or security, anything will do - just not symbolic change for the sake of it, policies that the government could have enacted anytime during the last couple of decades but chose not to, or plain wishful thinking. We have an idea of some of the costs, and potential costs, eg: break-up of the U.K., 8,000+ extra civil servants, loss of right to live and work in the EU, loss of EU regulatory bodies, exit from Euratom, loss of regional funding, loss of city of culture, loss Erasmus programme, loss of most auto-manufacturing, crippling manpower crisis in the NHS, higher education and agriculture, a devalued pound and longer queues at airports, the need to create a new approval mechanism for new medicines, no trade deals (yet), and quite a weak position to be in for negotiating new deals, uncertainty about the future for forward planning, insecurity for EU nationals in the U.K. and U.K. nationals in the EU., the promotion of the likes of Gove and Davis into positions of power, and a whopping great divorce bill. One bit of tangible silver lining would be great please Quilp. I won’t accept any ‘we’ll be free from the EUSSR’ baloney unless you can point to the statues of Jaques Delores that need toppling and the EU Stazi agents that need apprehending. I won’t accept ‘the Euro is about to collapse’ either, 1/3 of EU states don’t even use it, and I won’t accept ‘it’ll be great because WW2, British Empire, we’re the whatever biggest economy, etc’, get a grip on history and get a grip on reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Freggyragh said: Have you stopped pretending now Woody? Just throwing out random thoughts like a parody of a lunatic high on Alex Jones vids. Where are Woolley and Quilp? They’re closest we have to sentinent brexiters. Haven’t they got any good news brexit stories to share? Good news Brexit stories. Well, it's complicated isn't it? What about some good news EU stories? If you buy in to the EU, and I accept that many people do, then it goes much deeper than trade and commerce, important though they are. That was just the hook they hung it on to get it past national parliaments and electorates by making it sound benign. Speaking to many people as I do socially and through business, I get the impression that those supporting Remain do so for fairly mundane reasons of what I will call short term convenience. They've been convinced by project fear that Britain will no longer be able to trade with Europe which is patent nonsense, or they won't be able to travel, planes will be grounded etc, etc. They think Britain will be poor after Brexit and they talk about us not being able to survive "on our own", as though we were half a dozen people on Rockall rather than being one of the world's top economies with a wealth of innovators, scientists, financiers and entrepreneurs. The leading finance centre in Europe and the world after Brexit will of course be London. Let us be clear. If you buy into the EU of the Treaty of Rome and "ever closer union" the ultimate destination is a European state with a flag, passports, a currency an army and a sovereign government. They have the first three, they are working on the fourth and the fifth is an aspiration which already boasts several presidents, a parliament and a court which is supreme over those of the nation states. Nobody ever asked for any of this. It has simply been foisted upon Europe. Remainers. Is this the future you want? Hand on heart would you prefer to be a citizen of a country called Europe? Because that is where the EU is heading. If you do aspire to that then fair enough. It will never work but it is an honourable position to take if you genuinely believe in such an ideal. If, on the other hand, you are a Remainer simply for reasons of expediency, short term trade considerations, or for some vague notion of being a "good European", then I suggest the stance is not so honourable. You have been hoodwinked and "the project" will at some point, best case scenario, end in tears. We will be very lucky indeed if it ends without bloodshed. Brexiteers I speak to on the other hand tend to look beyond the near horizon and see the real EU of horrors and the big picture. The democratic deficit of it all, the bureaucracy, the usurpation of national power, the sapping of national pride and self-respect by dictat from the centre. They believe in their country, are confident in its future on a world stage and do not want it to be run remotely from Brussels. As for national wealth and growth, I don't believe the scare forecasts for one moment. I posted recently that they don't know what will happen later this year, let alone by the end of the next decade. We can safely file these stories under M for mischief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 So it comes down to identity politics. I like the idea of a ‘Europe of the Regions’ where it’s fine to be Flemish, Catalonian, Basque, Manx, Yorkshire, Scottish, Northern Irish (green or orange), Piedmontese, Sicilian, Breton, or whatever, and no one region dominates the rest. I suspect you are nostalgic for the era of strong European nation states. In my view, that caused too much strife in the past. I don’t suppose we’ll ever agree on that, and that colours the way we see the economic or social arguments of the other side. I’m sorry, but I don’t understand your point about ‘sapping of national pride’. National pride comes from culture, history and traditions. I can’t see how any of that was diminished by closer co-operation with the other EU nations. The ‘democratic deficit’ is a non-starter; I didn’t get a vote on Brexit and May is busy creating more Lords to get her bills through Parliament. As for the bureaucracy; as pointed out, that is in the process of being duplicated, just so the U.K. can try to get the trade deals it already has. Anyway, I’m sure it makes sense to you, and whatever happens it is bound to be a compromise fudged together by the truly awful political leaders in both main U.K. parties and the equally dire suits in Brussels. I will try hard to understand the emotions behind your views, but a little more evidence based rationale would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 8 hours ago, woolley said: Good news Brexit stories. Well, it's complicated isn't it? What about... Yes but "what about" the original question that Freegyragh asked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 8 hours ago, woolley said: ...the ultimate destination is a European state with a flag, passports, a currency an army and a sovereign government. They have the first three... See this is the whole bollocks about the "Blue passports" again... Yes the EU has a flag, and a passport and a currency...but then so does every country in the EU (except those that joined the Euro currency). The UK was at no point required to relinquish any of its flags, passports or currency. Its just more of the same isolationist chest puffing nonsense that was preyed upon by the Leave campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 8 hours ago, Freggyragh said: So it comes down to identity politics. Yes. Something I've been saying all along. You asked for some positive stories about Brexit. Thing is, you're a pro-eu, stone-walling skeptic without the capacity to look beyond the hyperbole and thoroughly convinced by project fear that the UK heads for disaster. You're also consumed with the idea that IQ and a vote for leave are connected, i.e. that only dimmoes and low intellect brought the country to where it is now. Well, chew on this freggy (does freggy really mean sock wank?)... https://briefingsforbrexit.com Positive backing from some intellectual heavyweights... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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