So the UK is finished says Theresa Mayhem

[Bobbie Bobster]

7 minutes ago, Rog said:

That day will NEVER dawn.

And he piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the rage and hate felt by his whole race. If his chest had been a cannon he would have shot his heart upon it.

[woolley]

19 minutes ago, mojomonkey said:

Universal income is an interesting concept, put forward by both sides of the political spectrum in history but it seems doomed to fail. Finland recently trialed it and concluded it wouldn't work on a national scale. I assume the market would just inflate to take account of the basic income.

It is actually a reasonable principle as automation renders more and more labour redundant. The problem is that there isn't a government on Earth that could be trusted to manage it without making a total Horlicks of it. Different perspective needed.

[woolley]

Here is a speech that Labour leader Hugh Gaitskell made to the 1962 Labour Party Conference about Britain and its projected accession to join the EEC:

https://www.cvce.eu/content/publication/1999/1/1/05f2996b-000b-4576-8b42-8069033a16f9/publishable_en.pdf

It is striking how so many elements raised have resonance more than half a century later:

The enthusiasm of the young...................:

"It is said, of course, that the young are in favour of this. The young are idealists; they want change; we know that. We welcome it, and I have no desire to belittle this. But if I were a little younger today, and if I were looking around for a cause, I do not think I should be quite so certain that I would find it within the movement for greater unity in Europe. I think I would find it outside in the world at large."

........................and the Liberals:

At the Liberal Party Conference, of course, the idea of our going into a European federation was greeted with wild enthusiasm by all the delegates. They are a little young, I think. I am all for youth but I like it to be sensible as well."

The loss of sovereignty:

"And I think we should say a little more, in all honesty, than perhaps the Government are inclined to say. I do not believe the British people now, at this stage, are prepared to accept a supranational system, majority decisions being taken against them, either in a Council of Ministers or a Federal Parliament, on the vital issues of foreign policy."

The lack of any guile in negotiations:

The fact is that today our bargaining position is as bad as it could be. On the one hand, the Government have gone into these negotiations making it abundantly plain that in fact, what ever they may have said, they are determined to go in on any conditions. If that be the case, why should the Six make any concessions to us?

The two-faced Tories:

"Of course, the Tories have been indulging in their usual double talk. When they go to Brussels they show the greatest enthusiasm for political union. When they speak in the House of Commons they are most anxious to aver that there is no commitment whatever to any political union."

The general population - too thick to have a view. The "intelligent" are all in favour:

"We are now being told that the British people are not capable of judging this issue – the Government know best; the top people are the only people who can understand it; it is too difficult for the rest. This is the classic argument of every tyranny in history. It begins as a refined, intellectual argument, and it moves into a one-man dictatorship; ‘We know best’ becomes ‘I know best.’ We did not win the political battles of the 19th and 20th centuries to have this reactionary nonsense thrust upon us again"

 

 

Edited May 18, 2018 by woolley

[woody2]

10 hours ago, mojomonkey said:

Universal income is an interesting concept, put forward by both sides of the political spectrum in history but it seems doomed to fail. Finland recently trialed it and concluded it wouldn't work on a national scale. I assume the market would just inflate to take account of the basic income.

massive fail wasn't it.......

[Rog]

1 hour ago, woody2 said:

massive fail wasn't it.......

Not only the inevitable massive fail but removes any real motivation for the inherently work shy to get off their fat backsides and fend for themselves.  Goodness knows the bloated and hopelessly over generous benefits system and Welfare State encourage far too many to ponce off the hard working tax payers, extending the money for nothing principle is hugely immoral apart from anything else. 

There's a great deal to be said for what is writ in Thessalonians 3:10.

[the stinking enigma]

Morning rog.

[Freggyragh]

21 minutes ago, Rog said:

Goodness knows the bloated and hopelessly over generous benefits system and Welfare State encourage far too many to ponce off the hard working tax payers, 

You miserable old git. How dare you speak about them like this on their special day!

[Rog]

10 minutes ago, Freggyragh said:

You miserable old git. How dare you speak about them like this on their special day!

oh you mean the "Royal" wedding! Bit of a larf not to mention a disgusting waste of OUR money. Still, the divorce will be fun!

Edited May 19, 2018 by Rog

[Rog]

10 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said:

Morning rog.

It is a good morning here!  A bit of a chill in the air from the Northerly breeze though.

[woody2]

american independence is clearly cancelled today.......

[woody2]

jon thompson, a well known remoaner clearly likes making things up....

[John Wright]

Mathew Paris, a conservative, opinion piece in Times of 8 February.

Edited May 23, 2018 by John Wright

[woody2]

a remoan paper.....

project fear is alive and well, shame everyone is laughing at you....

time to have a clearout of the remoan civil service who advise these ministers.....

[pongo]

9 minutes ago, woody2 said:

a remoan paper.....

project fear is alive and well, shame everyone is laughing at you....

time to have a clearout of the remoan civil service who advise these ministers.....

 

It's a good article which John has quoted. Nobody is laughing. The thing is a mess.

The Brexit vote was all about trying to heal the rifts within the Conservative Party. How ironic. Now those same divisions are putting the economy at risk. JRM's fringe, basically 60 pedantic and very wealthy MPs, are trying to hold the country to ransom and delaying the process of moving forward in any sort of sensible manner. Many of the same troublemakers and wreckers who undermined John Major's govt in the 90s - and delivered a Labour govt.

The Conservative Party is self indulgently arguing with itself instead of making the pragmatic and sensible compromises necessary for Britain to move forward. 

[woolley]

So in his world, if you don't believe in remaining in the EU you are "mistaken". Perhaps we should all be taken away for re-education as in the former Soviet Union. Idiot.