woody2 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 18 hours ago, the stinking enigma said: What the bladdy hell has happened to bojo anyway? and philip hammond but he's a remoaner so no one will be calling for his sacking..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 16 hours ago, Freggyragh said: When did Airbus U.K. get involved in the UKs decision not to adopt the Euro? Is this something the Daily Express just told you, or did you dream it? You asserted the above. I proved it wrong. No lies involved on my side. They did get involved in political matters which they should not, just as they are now. My only mistake was to follow your childish tendency to throw insults which I should not have done. Obviously you were not at school then. Obviously I do not take facts from the DailyExpress/Mail/Sun etc. it would be an additional "co-efficient of risk" that Airbus would have to take into account." Sounds like a veiled threat to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 3 hours ago, P.K. said: "Usurping Sovereignty" indeed, what a load of nonsense. "Throughout our membership of the EU the British government still determined the vast majority of policy over every issue of greatest concern to British voters – including health, education, pensions, welfare, monetary policy, defence, border security and so forth. The "sovereignty" argument blithely ignores the fact that the British government continued to control more than 98 per cent of its public expenditure during our EU tenure." As to a "superstate" all 28 member states get to vote on policy issues. That's called democracy I believe. The leading tory bexiteers are so self-centered and duplicitous it wouldn't surprise me at all if the final proposals are so deliberately unacceptable to the other 27 that they get binned off and we crash out. Win /Win for Johnson, Gove, Fox, Ress-Mogg, Davis etc etc. A hard Brexit with the UK right-wing press, which is to say pretty much all of it, having Brussells to blame with a "told you so" slant. With no mention whatsoever of "Perfidious Albion" in action. What a sorry business it all is... OK, if it's so insignificant why on Earth can we not have a free trade area without the laws, the flag, the parliament, the elections, the currency, etc. etc? You know, just like NAFTA. That would be fine and dandy. It's not the aim of the "project" though is it? It's what the project needs to hide behind because it dare not speak its true purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 3 hours ago, P.K. said: As to a "superstate" all 28 member states get to vote on policy issues. That's called democracy I believe. no they don't..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 3 hours ago, P.K. said: "Usurping Sovereignty" indeed, what a load of nonsense. "Throughout our membership of the EU the British government still determined the vast majority of policy over every issue of greatest concern to British voters – including health, education, pensions, welfare, monetary policy, defence, border security and so forth. The "sovereignty" argument blithely ignores the fact that the British government continued to control more than 98 per cent of its public expenditure during our EU tenure." rubbish- the ecj can and do overrule the uk on any policy-the uk has zero control or say...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 1 hour ago, woolley said: It's what the project needs to hide behind because it dare not speak its true purpose. Sounds like something out of 1984. You know. Fiction. Notice you didn't try and refute anything about the "loss of sovereignty" complete and utter nonsense. Progress of a sort I suppose. I'm quite sure you underestimate how important the EU is to nations that have been invaded time after time.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, P.K. said: Sounds like something out of 1984. You know. Fiction. Notice you didn't try and refute anything about the "loss of sovereignty" complete and utter nonsense. Progress of a sort I suppose. I'm quite sure you underestimate how important the EU is to nations that have been invaded time after time.... i did.... rubbish- the ecj can and do overrule the uk on any policy-the uk has zero control or say...... as for eastern europe run by a undemocratic dictatorship they were also once part of the ussr...... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, John Wright said: You said “opened”. That’s a woody woody fact. Bit of truth and a contrary implication or conclusion to the truth. Airbus UK wasn’t a takeover, just a hiving off from BAC of the Airbus related manufacturing, just a rename at that stage. I was clearly talking about the A380 wing factory. http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2003/07/uk-s-biggest-new-factory-opens-at-airbus-broughton.html It is in Broughton, as was the old Lancaster bomber factory. It is not the same factory. Another factory was opened in 2011: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/new-400m-airbus-factory-secure-1805252.amp Woolley was talking specifically about Airbus, and the Airbus management. Not BAC. Did BAC triy to interfere in the Pound / Euro debate? If not, then how is it relevant? If you are saying that BAC, BAE, or Marconi, or any other components of what became Airbus U.K. were lobbying through the 90s for the Euro then I’d like to see a link. Edited June 26, 2018 by Freggyragh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkle Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 3 hours ago, woody2 said: rubbish- the ecj can and do overrule the uk on any policy-the uk has zero control or say...... as this proves what really happened. http://thedailybrexit.blogspot.com/2018/06/the-lisbon-treaty-and-true-cost.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, twinkle said: as this proves what really happened. http://thedailybrexit.blogspot.com/2018/06/the-lisbon-treaty-and-true-cost.html All that proves is that you'll believe anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 one for pongo..... PM urged to speed up no-deal Brexit plans https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44590930 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 less eu benefit claimants coming in= UK government borrowing falls more than expected https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44559960 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 4 hours ago, P.K. said: Sounds like something out of 1984. You know. Fiction. Notice you didn't try and refute anything about the "loss of sovereignty" complete and utter nonsense. Progress of a sort I suppose. I'm quite sure you underestimate how important the EU is to nations that have been invaded time after time.... I'm tired of refuting it and wasting my time on you, that's why. I notice you didn't address the matter of why we can't have a free trade area rather than a pseudo state. It could embrace all of the co-operation without any of the control. If you are now saying it's because some countries are afraid of being invaded then that is a different matter altogether than the "common market" that the UK joined. The EU is not equipped to prevent war between countries anyway. The way things are going in the south and east, it's more likely to start one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 1 hour ago, woolley said: I'm tired of refuting it and wasting my time on you, that's why. I notice you didn't address the matter of why we can't have a free trade area rather than a pseudo state. It could embrace all of the co-operation without any of the control. If you are now saying it's because some countries are afraid of being invaded then that is a different matter altogether than the "common market" that the UK joined. The EU is not equipped to prevent war between countries anyway. The way things are going in the south and east, it's more likely to start one. I understand your reluctance to discuss "sovereignty" perfectly well.......... I don't view the EU as a pseudo state at all. Obviously it has to have a flag that represents all the nation states when attending EU business like striking trade deals. Otherwise the table stands would look like porcupines! It also has to have an ECJ because it recognises one size will never fit all. So there has to be an arbiter of disputes between nation states particularly on interpreting EU regulations on things like standards. Of course the ECJ is hated by the tory party (currently presiding over record homelessness, record old folks and children living in poverty and a creaking NHS) because they want a "flexible" workforce. The rights of French and German workers came as a big surprise to me. But the EU as a state? I'll run that past my "foreign" friends and see what they think. After all, surely they'll view it as a threat as well...? As an aside The New European is doing a four-week freebie. Worth it just to hear what Alastair Campbell had to say about Paul Dacre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 53 minutes ago, P.K. said: I understand your reluctance to discuss "sovereignty" perfectly well.......... I don't view the EU as a pseudo state at all. Obviously it has to have a flag that represents all the nation states when attending EU business like striking trade deals. Otherwise the table stands would look like porcupines! It also has to have an ECJ because it recognises one size will never fit all. So there has to be an arbiter of disputes between nation states particularly on interpreting EU regulations on things like standards. Of course the ECJ is hated by the tory party (currently presiding over record homelessness, record old folks and children living in poverty and a creaking NHS) because they want a "flexible" workforce. The rights of French and German workers came as a big surprise to me. But the EU as a state? I'll run that past my "foreign" friends and see what they think. After all, surely they'll view it as a threat as well...? As an aside The New European is doing a four-week freebie. Worth it just to hear what Alastair Campbell had to say about Paul Dacre. I am not reluctant to discuss sovereignty. You never have anything new to say on it and we've done it to death anyway. How does NAFTA manage without the baggage of state as I asked in the first place and why cannot the EU do the same, as a straightforward a free trade area with no hidden agenda? The difference between us is that you are happy to live under an arrangement where, treaty by treaty, nation states are being gradually subordinated by stealth to eventually become nothing more than regions of Europe. I believe in nations having full sovereignty and fulfilling their own destiny. Not just the UK incidentally, but all of the nations of Europe. As for "presiding over poverty", have a care for the damage being caused and lives wrecked by the strictures of the single currency in Southern Europe. Obviously this counts for nothing to you. Why are your foreign friends in inverted commas? Mine aren't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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