woody2 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 29 minutes ago, P.K. said: Still, they're getting their way and we're leaving. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 1 hour ago, doc.fixit said: ...naïve question- what's the difference between populism and democracy?........ Populism offers simplistic solutions and makes simplistic promises. Like the Italian coalition promising increased spending and reduced taxation. It's about offering people what they want whether or not that is sustainable, practical or right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 These Brexit heroes are all so alike: https://www.ft.com/content/8075e68c-7857-11e8-8e67-1e1a0846c475?segmentId=840bd504-f14c-eb08-4a48-632eef0c190b&segment_detail=Q2Story27UK&ds_rl=1253590 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc.fixit Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 44 minutes ago, pongo said: Populism offers simplistic solutions and makes simplistic promises. Like the Italian coalition promising increased spending and reduced taxation. It's about offering people what they want whether or not that is sustainable, practical or right. ............so PK was correct in implying that populism is an incitement to get democratic votes??.......... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 4 hours ago, P.K. said: (and increasingly boringly) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Domino effect? "Threat to Schengen. Gloomy German government sources told me they gave the project a three out of 10 chance of survival thanks to the increasingly nationalistic nature of many European governments." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44632471 Could migrants finish the EU? It would appear so..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 14 hours ago, woody2 said: so no agreement..... #fakenews Look, you are still missing the point businesses lobby governments for concessions or support ALL the time. They did so before Brexit and will continue to do so post Brexit. They do so, not for the common person, but to further the interests of their owners and investors. FFS woody, I am actually giving you the argument about why the claims by Airbus should not be taken at face value. John Lewis have now waded in. They are asking the Government to ensure that there is a deal to leave the EU. Worth noting that John Lewis have posted profit warnings and are struggling to compete with online shopping. I wonder what they want? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkle Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 1 hour ago, P.K. said: Domino effect? "Threat to Schengen. Gloomy German government sources told me they gave the project a three out of 10 chance of survival thanks to the increasingly nationalistic nature of many European governments." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44632471 Could migrants finish the EU? It would appear so..... I fucking hope so. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 17 minutes ago, twinkle said: I fucking hope so. Really? It's not just economic migrants heading for the EU but also genuine families of refugees. If the EU goes all Trump-like their plight can only worsen in to a disaster. But hey, don't let humanitarian issues get in the way of your obsession..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 It's all good news for the yanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Michael Gove's solution to all the EU migrants leaving because of Brexit... Get the Ukrainians in...(smh) https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/ukrainian-workers-could-replace-eu-nationals-post-brexit-michael-gove-suggests-1-5580303 "The UK environment secretary told MSPs at Holyrood that industries could in future have to "think about looking further afield" when recruiting staff. Some sectors of the UK economy, such as food production and the hospitality industry, have employed a large number of workers from other European countries - with Mr Gove saying they had "relied on labour from abroad". In Scotland in particular soft fruit growers and fish processing firms have employed high numbers of workers from other European nations." ""It is not just an issue for the UK but an issue for other countries in western Europe. And that means we will need to think in the future how workers from the [sic] Ukraine or other countries who want to come here can do so in an appropriate fashion."" - Gove Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 2 hours ago, manxman1980 said: Look, you are still missing the point businesses lobby governments for concessions or support ALL the time. They did so before Brexit and will continue to do so post Brexit. They do so, not for the common person, but to further the interests of their owners and investors. FFS woody, I am actually giving you the argument about why the claims by Airbus should not be taken at face value. John Lewis have now waded in. They are asking the Government to ensure that there is a deal to leave the EU. Worth noting that John Lewis have posted profit warnings and are struggling to compete with online shopping. I wonder what they want? not disagreeing with you about business lobbying..... if airbus was a eu problem they would move to another eu country- they aren't..... nissan didn't get an agreement despite your claims...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 3 hours ago, P.K. said: Domino effect? "Threat to Schengen. Gloomy German government sources told me they gave the project a three out of 10 chance of survival thanks to the increasingly nationalistic nature of many European governments." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44632471 Could migrants finish the EU? It would appear so..... schengen has already failed.... last week you had madcon having a go at italy for not taking the german (people smugglers) boats while having armed guards on the french-italy border to keep any from crossing...... if merkel goes standby...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, P.K. said: Domino effect? "Threat to Schengen. Gloomy German government sources told me they gave the project a three out of 10 chance of survival thanks to the increasingly nationalistic nature of many European governments." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44632471 Could migrants finish the EU? It would appear so..... If it pisses down next week will you blame that on Brexit too? The truth is that Schengen was an idealists' pipe dream. OK while everything was peaceful and quiet but the minute things start going a little haywire, such as is the case with Merkel's self-inflicted immigration crisis, countries are going to start looking to their own interests and asserting their borders. Good thing too, because if they are not very careful on the continent, migrants could finish not only the EU, but Europe as we have known it for hundreds of years. ETA: Incidentally, this also gives the lie to the oft repeated fantasy that the EU has kept the peace in Europe for 70 years. On the contrary, it has simply basked in 70 years of peace that are not of its making. It is now powerless to stop the forces that threaten its very existence because it is a paper tiger. It can huff and puff and demand that countries use their powers to do its bidding, but they will not do so when they see Brussels' instructions are going against their own national interests. The EU has no more sway to keep the peace in Europe than the combined might of Manx Forums posters have. Edited June 28, 2018 by woolley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, woody2 said: not disagreeing with you about business lobbying..... if airbus was a eu problem they would move to another eu country- they aren't..... nissan didn't get an agreement despite your claims...... Airbus are an EU company though. They do have facilities throughout the EU already and the case they are currently making is that the UK is the one leaving the EU and, in their view, going to make things difficult for them to continue operations in the UK. They may well be planning on moving production outside the EU but they are sure as hell going to use Brexit as an excuse in order to pursue concessions from the UK Government. No UK Government would want an increase in unemployment post brexit and businesses linking the reasons to brexit makes it a political hot potato and it must seem to Airbus that they will win concessions based on the argument they are outlining. Nissan got a "gentleman's agreement". Whilst there may be nothing formal they must have had something from the UK Government otherwise they too would just have moved production. Given the support for Brexit in the North East and the areas reliance on the car industry (and steel industry) then I have no doubt that something was agreed to convince Nissan to invest in the area. No doubt that the first signs of Brexit making their operations difficult will lead to another threat to pull production from the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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