Barrie Stevens Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Nissan got a Comfort Letter the enforceable legality of which has always been a moot point. NIssan were told that they would "remain competitive"...I believe the text has never been released. Comfort Letters are often necessary to move things on or else trade would stop! In shipping owners often get a Comfort Letter and an increased rate of freight or hire to sign "Clean" Bills of Lading even if cargo is visibly damaged. They make P&I Club lawyers scream in terror! I post a link..It all depends on the bankability of the signature and if they stand by you! I post a link https://gulfnews.com/news/uae/general/legal-perspective-legality-of-comfort-letters-1.379756 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 11 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Airbus are an EU company though. They do have facilities throughout the EU already and the case they are currently making is that the UK is the one leaving the EU and, in their view, going to make things difficult for them to continue operations in the UK. They may well be planning on moving production outside the EU but they are sure as hell going to use Brexit as an excuse in order to pursue concessions from the UK Government. No UK Government would want an increase in unemployment post brexit and businesses linking the reasons to brexit makes it a political hot potato and it must seem to Airbus that they will win concessions based on the argument they are outlining. Nissan got a "gentleman's agreement". Whilst there may be nothing formal they must have had something from the UK Government otherwise they too would just have moved production. Given the support for Brexit in the North East and the areas reliance on the car industry (and steel industry) then I have no doubt that something was agreed to convince Nissan to invest in the area. No doubt that the first signs of Brexit making their operations difficult will lead to another threat to pull production from the UK. if airbus was moving production elsewhere in the eu this would be an exit issue- they clearly state production would move to china or the usa- it has nothing to do with exit or this thread...... nissan have nothing it was covered at the time on here, even the (mainly remoaner) brexit committee said no deal had been done..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, Barrie Stevens said: Nissan got a Comfort Letter the enforceable legality of which has always been a moot point. NIssan were told that they would "remain competitive"...I believe the text has never been released. Comfort Letters are often necessary to move things on or else trade would stop! In shipping owners often get a Comfort Letter and an increased rate of freight or hire to sign "Clean" Bills of Lading even if cargo is visibly damaged. They make P&I Club lawyers scream in terror! I post a link..It all depends on the bankability of the signature and if they stand by you! I post a link https://gulfnews.com/news/uae/general/legal-perspective-legality-of-comfort-letters-1.379756 sir bazza the letter was published awhile back by the brexit committee, it contained no promises or agreements...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, woody2 said: sir bazza the letter was published awhile back by the brexit committee, it contained no promises or agreements...... Will you kindly post me a hot link so that I may read the text as publishing a comfort letter is or can be trouble...Also a comfort letter that does not contain a firm promise is worthless...It is usually a moral "agreement" from one to the other. The phrase reported at the time was that Nissan "would stay competitive" (Whatever that might mean at the end of the day)...A comfort letter that contains nothing firm proffers little comfort. I await your link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Barrie Stevens said: Will you kindly post me a hot link so that I may read the text as publishing a comfort letter is or can be trouble...Also a comfort letter that does not contain a firm promise is worthless...It is usually a moral "agreement" from one to the other. The phrase reported at the time was that Nissan "would stay competitive" (Whatever that might mean at the end of the day)...A comfort letter that contains nothing firm proffers little comfort. I await your link How long have you got? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Just now, woolley said: How long have you got? Not that long! I live in God's waiting room and so far I have lost nine neighbour's in ten years and we had the funeral of "Mad Mick Sullivan" only yesterday! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Barrie Stevens said: Not that long! I live in God's waiting room and so far I have lost nine neighbour's in ten years and we had the funeral of "Mad Mick Sullivan" only yesterday! I'd stop counting the dead neighbours if I were you, Bazza. It'll only send you batty. An old chap that we did some work for years ago now lives in an old folks home and where did they build it? Overlooking a cemetery. He's not so good now and can't get out much. From his window he watches his friends and neighbours "carted off in an ambulance or a box and a few days later I see them back at the bloody cemetery." As he says: "What a bloody life!" (And Brexit too!!!) Edited June 28, 2018 by woolley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 14 minutes ago, woody2 said: sir bazza the letter was published awhile back by the brexit committee, it contained no promises or agreements...... I can find no link to the full text. The rumours at the time were that Nissan was comforted to the extent that it would face "No additional costs" as a consequence of Brexit and that subsequently it went ahead with tooling up for two new models in Sunderland... The other question was whether or not the comfort letter involved the use of public money to keep Nissan "comfortable"... Conspiracy theorists say that the "comfort" is also an assurance that the UK will inevitably have to accommodate the Customs Union in some way at the end of the day. Comfort letters are usually not legally enforceable I believe due to the absence of "valuable consideration" essential for contractual terms to be derived. Some say that Nissan has been shown a pot full of public money as the back stop...If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is usually a duck...Occam's razor? Also, I think the EU has rules and regs on such as support for industry and as I think the UK is going to throw the towel in eventually this comfort letter may not be necessary or in any way enforceable.. But my crystal ball has not been the same since I put it in the dish washer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, woolley said: I'd stop counting the dead neighbours if I were you, Bazza. It'll only send you batty. An old chap that we did some work for years ago now lives in an old folks home and where did they build it? Overlooking a cemetery. He's not so good now and can't get out much. From his window he watches his friends and neighbours "carted off in an ambulance or a box and a few days later I see them back at the bloody cemetery." As he says: "What a bloody life!" (And Brexit too!!!) On the contrary! The families usually want nothing out of the deceased's flat so we get told "Help yourself"...It makes the looting and firing of Washington by the British Army in 1814 mere bagatelle by comparison. (Not many people know that we fired the White House and public buildings in 1814) I came away from the Island with two suitcases ten years ago and inside 24 hours I had a furnished flat by way of looting a deceased neighbour. Also, I and another neighbour discovered £10,000 in a broom cupboard after the death of a 92 year old. We handed that to the next of kin who had no knowledge of it and got a nice little commission out of it.. Death where is thy sting? O grave thy victory. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 20 minutes ago, Barrie Stevens said: Will you kindly post me a hot link so that I may read the text as publishing a comfort letter is or can be trouble...Also a comfort letter that does not contain a firm promise is worthless...It is usually a moral "agreement" from one to the other. The phrase reported at the time was that Nissan "would stay competitive" (Whatever that might mean at the end of the day)...A comfort letter that contains nothing firm proffers little comfort. I await your link 4 key points..... https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2016-10-31/debates/3BAC6B0F-E41B-431D-8062-C42D89C9ADA8/NissanSunderland its also under the brexit committee report in full..... he also discuss it on marr at the time..... suns out so can't be bothered to look..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, woody2 said: 4 key points..... https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2016-10-31/debates/3BAC6B0F-E41B-431D-8062-C42D89C9ADA8/NissanSunderland its also under the brexit committee report in full..... he also discuss it on marr at the time..... suns out so can't be bothered to look..... Ta. Will have a butcher's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, woody2 said: 4 key points..... https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2016-10-31/debates/3BAC6B0F-E41B-431D-8062-C42D89C9ADA8/NissanSunderland its also under the brexit committee report in full..... he also discuss it on marr at the time..... suns out so can't be bothered to look..... The actual text has not been released although it has been talked about so you can guess what it says. They are using phrases such as "refused to be transparent" and "sweetener"...Basically, they indicate what the letter contains and so it looks like an assurance of money to keep Nissan on side...They would surely not release the text as everyone else would want one...And the Learned friends would also be invited to take a view! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, Barrie Stevens said: The actual text has not been released although it has been talked about so you can guess what it says. They are using phrases such as "refused to be transparent" and "sweetener"...Basically, they indicate what the letter contains and so it looks like an assurance of money to keep Nissan on side...They would surely not release the text as everyone else would want one...And the Learned friends would also be invited to take a view! no money has been paid and anything said is just government policy...... remoans just like #fakenews conspiracies..... if anything was different the remoan cs would of leaked it...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, woody2 said: no money has been paid and anything said is just government policy...... remoans just like #fakenews conspiracies..... if anything was different the remoan cs would of leaked it...... No one said money had been paid or was going to be. The parliamentary system made sure that it would remain speculative. The MPs were unable to get a straight answer or a copy of the letter and so all is speculation...We are still in the EU so rules and regs on that sort of thing "aid to industry" still apply. I think they will apply for some years to come one way or another. But Nissan got something...Now who will get the poisoned chalice if the comfort letter is "called" by Nissan? If it mentions money or money's worth or some action of value to Nissan then it is arguably more than a comfort letter but a rather open ended contract by implication. This in turn makes a day at the races for the Learned friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 1 hour ago, woolley said: If it pisses down next week will you blame that on Brexit too? The truth is that Schengen was an idealists' pipe dream. OK while everything was peaceful and quiet but the minute things start going a little haywire, such as is the case with Merkel's self-inflicted immigration crisis, countries are going to start looking to their own interests and asserting their borders. Good thing too, because if they are not very careful on the continent, migrants could finish not only the EU, but Europe as we have known it for hundreds of years. ETA: Incidentally, this also gives the lie to the oft repeated fantasy that the EU has kept the peace in Europe for 70 years. On the contrary, it has simply basked in 70 years of peace that are not of its making. It is now powerless to stop the forces that threaten its very existence because it is a paper tiger. It can huff and puff and demand that countries use their powers to do its bidding, but they will not do so when they see Brussels' instructions are going against their own national interests. The EU has no more sway to keep the peace in Europe than the combined might of Manx Forums posters have. Hoping for sunny weather of course with decent fishing. All the EU citizens I know, especially the Germans, feel differently about keeping the peace than you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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