P.K. Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, quilp said: It is virtually impossible to have any reasonable debate with you. If you're not pontificating from that bible of virtue you draw all of your subjective idealism from you're withdrawing on the defensive in comically wounded fashion when someone posts something you don't agree with or proves you wrong. Your post above is typically and predictably condescending... Nah. Just taking the piss actually. And if you can't realise that then you, sir, are the one with head firmly between buttocks. Edited July 5, 2018 by P.K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Rog said: And sure as god made little green apples some smart arse lawyer would use the ECHR to prevent deportation. Please share your evidence that god created little green apples, because if you can't produce that evidence then the second part of your sentence is also BS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 13 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Please share your evidence that god created little green apples, because if you can't produce that evidence then the second part of your sentence is also BS. Oh come on, it's an expression, nothing more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 red lines looking good..... Quote Mrs May said at Prime Minister's Questions the government would ensure "we are out of the customs union, that we are out of the single market, that we are out of the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, we are out of the Common Agricultural Policy, we are out of the Common Fisheries Policy, we bring an end to free movement, we take control of our borders, we have an independent trade policy". #ouch1 Quote But customs is only a fraction of the relationship between the UK and the EU and so the British idea of aligning to some European regulations is a much bigger deal. #ouch2 eu are not worth bothering with...... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44719576 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc.fixit Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 On 7/4/2018 at 11:47 AM, woody2 said: yes- i'm going to collect a new vehicle....... thanks for asking....... ........wotcha getting woody?............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 1 hour ago, doc.fixit said: ........wotcha getting woody?............. actros 33 ton 6x4- 15.6 litre..... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc.fixit Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 ....very, very nice..............jealousy rules.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecobob Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 4 hours ago, doc.fixit said: ........wotcha getting woody?............. 2 hours ago, woody2 said: actros 33 ton 6x4- 15.6 litre..... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 10 hours ago, woody2 said: at the moment they pay wto+ eu export tariffs To try and understand your fantasy I’ll have to accept the super optimistic assumption that the U.K. will be able to smoothly join WTO (which requires a consensus of 164 members). And, for your benefit I’ll pretend that the EU’s 36 FTAs and all the other favourable trade deals the EU already has don’t exist (the ones that basically cover the whole world, bar Russia and its satellites, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, Libya and Iran). Now, tell me more about these EU export tariffs - ‘getting rid of EU export tariffs’ plays much better with me than ‘offering Putin a way around sanctions’, and it’s just about the last card you’ve got. Please don’t let me find out ‘EU export tariffs’ are something you read on a Russian backed conspiracy site. Link, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.commercialfleet.org/amp/news/truck-news/2018/01/25/brexit-trading-on-wto-rules-could-significantly-affect-prices-say-truck-bosses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Freggyragh said: To try and understand your fantasy I’ll have to accept the super optimistic assumption that the U.K. will be able to smoothly join WTO (which requires a consensus of 164 members). And, for your benefit I’ll pretend that the EU’s 36 FTAs and all the other favourable trade deals the EU already has don’t exist (the ones that basically cover the whole world, bar Russia and its satellites, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, Libya and Iran). Now, tell me more about these EU export tariffs - ‘getting rid of EU export tariffs’ plays much better with me than ‘offering Putin a way around sanctions’, and it’s just about the last card you’ve got. Please don’t let me find out ‘EU export tariffs’ are something you read on a Russian backed conspiracy site. Link, please. Theoretically, yes. but remember that all states and the businesses within those states badly want trade to continue unabated as it is strongly in their interests that it does so. In practice, aside from the politics and grandstanding of Leave, Remain and the EU itself, the overwhelming likelihood is that the terms which exist in the FTAs currently accessed via the EU will be cut and pasted as new FTAs with the UK on the same or very similar terms. Why would they not be when it is in the interests of both parties? This will cater for the short term while longer term aspirations are negotiated. There is no objection to a genuine free trade area agreement as in NAFTA for example. It's all the other baggage that comes with it in the case of the EU that is the big problem. I don't know what you mean by "EU export tariffs". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 You’re nuts if you think a market the size of the U.K. can get the same trade terms as the EU. The U.K. will lose all say in the rules and regs and every nation it currently trades with will see a chance to improve their own trading position. You were so bloody naive with the EU trade deal, don’t tell me you think the rest of the world will be different. I’ve no idea what ‘EU export tariffs’ are either, but Woody thinks they exist and if they do then his argument for Brexit starts to make a bit of sense. Sadly, I think it just might be a Woodyfact he got from a Russian backed conspiracy site, but who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 10 hours ago, woolley said: There is no objection to a genuine free trade area agreement as in NAFTA for example. It's all the other baggage that comes with it in the case of the EU that is the big problem. You keep quoting NAFTA as some paragon of a trading bloc when the reality is that it's coiming apart at the seams. The "baggage" that comes with the EU such as regulations, the ECJ etc etc I view as necessary to create a level playing field. I posted a classic example the other day about an inbalance in fishing quotas that the ECJ could put right. I also applaud their workers rights that put UK workers more on a par with places like Germany and France. Sure they can be circumvented by things like zero-hours contracts but they can and are being challenged. So folks like me don't view it as some kind of malign force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 One problem for third parties, trade blocs or individual countries, negotiating a free, or any, trade deal with USA is caused by its constitution. Looking at chickens ( and chlorine wash ) or beef & dairy ( and growth hormones ) or field crops ( and GM ) - all of which the USA would want to be able to export to the UK in a bilateral trade deal - the essence of reciprocity, essential to such deals, cannot be offered by the Federal Government. So UK agricultural produce wouldn’t get equal free access to the US market. WHY? Simply because setting of many of the safety and welfare standards are reserved to the states. So whilst all of the states could, under such a ( mythical ) deal send their produce here UK producers will not be able to send certain products to certain states. Mind you that also happens in the EU, marmite, one example, can’t be sold in DK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 12 hours ago, Freggyragh said: You’re nuts if you think a market the size of the U.K. can get the same trade terms as the EU. The U.K. will lose all say in the rules and regs and every nation it currently trades with will see a chance to improve their own trading position. You were so bloody naive with the EU trade deal, don’t tell me you think the rest of the world will be different. Frankly, I do think that and naivety doesn't come into it. I am looking at things from the commercial imperative rather than the political rhetoric perspective. Whilst there will inevitably be some jockeying for position, there are very strong financial incentives for proceeding as I have outlined both for third countries and the EU itself. Fundamentally, they don't want to damage their own trade and the best way to achieve that is to co-operate. There is no point in us yah-booing about this as we will never convince each other. Let's just wait and see what happens. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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