Rog Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Well I'm gutted with the way that May has handled, or rather mishandled the escape from the EU. I can only hope the whole "soft" BREXIT will collapse and we can go for a rock hard no prior deal walk away. I am firmly of the belief that May should go and sooner rather than later. "Wet" just doesn't adequately describe her. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 2 hours ago, P.K. said: I don't see that as a given. There has been a rise in populism across the EU with self-inflicted economic woes being blamed on the handiest scapegoat available namely the EU. Our politicians use the same language e.g. "A deal that suits the UK and not Brussels" rather than "A deal that suits the UK and not the other 27 member states" because that does not target the so-called faceless, expensive, unnecessary, empire-building administration and all the rest of the brexit bs. Mindful of this I don't expect the EU to allow any cherry-picking. And with this tory government having wasted so much time on in-fighting we could simply time out and therefore crash out. Best option by far and has been from day #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, woolley said: The EU is essentially self-serving. It cares about the euro, but it doesn't give a bugger about the poor. If you really believe what you have posted there, go and spend some time in Greece, Spain and Portugal. Presumably that doesn't include the €3.8 billion earmarked by the EU for deprived areas? In a previous life I spent a lot of time in Spain late 70's early 80's. Back then the village I stayed in had a central washing facility which was essentially a cement trough. The women would come down early evening and wash all the clothes together. Basically there was a lot of poverty and that takes time to lift up a step or two. Especially in rural areas. Greece was a basket case. I suspect they made a lot of sacrifices to stay in the EU because a progmatic government realised that reform was desperately needed anyway. So to turn your question on it's head if the EU is so bad then why has Greece put it so much in hock. Sure they might default but really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, woolley said: The NHS "situation" is what? It has billions of pounds more thrown at it every year, with another £20 billion extra now promised. It has to cope with continually increasing demand, yes. But it is not starved of cash as the left would have us believe. The problem is that the NHS is run as a massive nationalised industry, and that is always going to carry systemic inefficiencies from top to bottom. If the system is "the envy of the world", why is the world not copying it? Doesn't matter if it's the envy of the world or not. It's the sacred cow that the country would never tolerate privatisation of. That and the BBC. These are the real reasons for the Brexit debacle, and why crashing out with no deal is so attractive to some. Edited July 10, 2018 by La Colombe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Just now, La Colombe said: Doesn't matter if it's the envy of the world or not. It's a the sacred cow that the country would never tolerate privatisation of. That and the BBC. These are the real reasons for the Brexit debacle, and why crashing out with no deal is so attractive to some. Especially those with a fireproof index-linked income....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, P.K. said: Greece was a basket case. I suspect they made a lot of sacrifices to stay in the EU because a progmatic government realised that reform was desperately needed anyway. So to turn your question on it's head if the EU is so bad then why has Greece put it so much in hock. Sure they might default but really? Because everything is subordinate to the grand plan of "ever closer union". Yes, they throw money (taxpayers' money) at these countries, but that is small comfort compared to the effects of the one size fits all currency union. Those countries' economies will never be able to function properly within its strictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, P.K. said: Presumably that doesn't include the €3.8 billion earmarked by the EU for deprived areas? In a previous life I spent a lot of time in Spain late 70's early 80's. Back then the village I stayed in had a central washing facility which was essentially a cement trough. The women would come down early evening and wash all the clothes together. Basically there was a lot of poverty and that takes time to lift up a step or two. Especially in rural areas. Greece was a basket case. I suspect they made a lot of sacrifices to stay in the EU because a progmatic government realised that reform was desperately needed anyway. So to turn your question on it's head if the EU is so bad then why has Greece put it so much in hock. Sure they might default but really? has the 3rd and 4th bailout for greece been past yet..... when the money stop they will be out with germany picking up the bill...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 22 minutes ago, Rog said: I am firmly of the belief that May should go and sooner rather than later. "Wet" just doesn't adequately describe her. nah- let her suffer..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, La Colombe said: Doesn't matter if it's the envy of the world or not. It's a the sacred cow that the country would never tolerate privatisation of. That and the BBC. These are the real reasons for the Brexit debacle, and why crashing out with no deal is so attractive to some. You are absolutely right about it being a sacred cow that nobody dares to touch. It is toxic politically to suggest such a thing. That is why it continues as the healthcare parallel with 1970s British Leyland. It could be much better organised, but nobody dares. I don't see how "crashing out" of the EU, as you put it, would change any of that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 minute ago, woolley said: Because everything is subordinate to the grand plan of "ever closer union". Yes, they throw money (taxpayers' money) at these countries, but that is small comfort compared to the effects of the one size fits all currency union. Those countries' economies will never be able to function properly within its strictures. Define 'properly' please. Thanks. Hmmm "ever closer union" leads to what exactly? It seems to me the EU still has growing pains and as I've said many times will have to reform itself. Unfortunately without the wise counsel from folks like Farage. How they must miss him..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, woody2 said: nah- let her suffer..... But not for so long as it prevents a cold clinical exit from the horrible EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, P.K. said: as I've said many times will have to reform itself. the wife beater line........ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, P.K. said: Define 'properly' please. Thanks. Hmmm "ever closer union" leads to what exactly? It seems to me the EU still has growing pains and as I've said many times will have to reform itself. Unfortunately without the wise counsel from folks like Farage. How they must miss him..... It's not growing pains, it's the pains from terminal political cancer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Rog said: But not for so long as it prevents a cold clinical exit from the horrible EU. she's not going to get anything through parliament now..... it was always going to happen after the leave legislation was passed.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, woolley said: You are absolutely right about it being a sacred cow that nobody dares to touch. It is toxic politically to suggest such a thing. That is why it continues as the healthcare parallel with 1970s British Leyland. It could be much better organised, but nobody dares. I don't see how "crashing out" of the EU, as you put it, would change any of that. As I understand it, WTO rules wouldn't allow the current NHS/BBC models. So they'll be privatised as the only choice, the choice the country can then be blamed for making by voting out of the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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