Rog Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 The referendum asked one question. The result was that the majority want out. The EU is an undemocratic disaster. It's getting worse by the day. To hell with some sort of soft exit. Just let us get out. There is no price that is too high in order to achieve this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 12 hours ago, pongo said: I'm for a soft Brexit. And I have been saying from the start that's what will happen. That's still seems the inevitable outcome for the moment. The issue is the process. We're intrinsically interlinked. Any separation can only happen over a much longer period and it is more likely that all countries will gradually move towards shared systems of standards and practices. But the Chequers plan is full of holes. It's a mess. Mr Barnier says that the deal is 80% done. That can only mean that the outstanding 20% means shifting the deal further away from pedantic all or nothing sovereign position. Woody and Co believe that if the deal is rejected by Parliament then we get a no-deal Brexit. Starmer and the media I think believe that if Parliament rejects the deal then Brexit is on hold. It's not certain either way. The thing is a mess. Woody believes that it's for the EU to impose a hard border in Ireland if there is a no deal Brexit. Everyone else apart from Mogg basically agrees that it would be WTO rules which would require a hard border. The truth is that the whole thing is up in the air. Davis resigned on principle. Boris resigned on a matter of ambition. wrong...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 8 hours ago, woolley said: There are extremely principled people who support Brexit, not just the likes of Boris. 29 minutes ago, Rog said: The referendum asked one question. The result was that the majority want out. The EU is an undemocratic disaster. It's getting worse by the day. To hell with some sort of soft exit. Just let us get out. There is no price that is too high in order to achieve this. "One of these things is not like the other, one of these things is not quite the same...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 12 hours ago, Freggyragh said: Another Woodyfact. Common funding to cover NATO’s own costs (military and civil) are calculated as a percentage of gdp and are payable regardless of whether an individual country’s defence spending commitments are met. So underspend on defence does not effect the amount of dosh that goes direct to NATO. Not in the slightest. Ya spud-cock. it does according to nato....... #youthicko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 12 hours ago, Lost Login said: Basic comprehension old boy. Comparatively most countries pay basically nothing to NATO for common funding. NATO's direct funding budget for 2018 is I believe capped at about €2.2bn. The UK defence budget is I think £47.2. i.e. roughly 20 times the who NATO budget. The USA's is $619bn. The USA pay just over 22% of the common funding which is about $0.5bn. That is comparatively nothing against $600bn If anything the USA get off lightly as in the cost sharing arrangements they only pay 22% compared to the UK & France's 10%, Germany 14% are you referring to direct or indirect funding? the number are on nato's site.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said: "One of these things is not like the other, one of these things is not quite the same...." Of course they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 9 hours ago, Freggyragh said: Nope, if Woody says so, that’s enough for me. You might like to confirm to Woody that the ‘President of the European Council’ is not only elected, but he is also a politician. (I guess Woody thinks because Tusk is Polish he must be a plumber). he is not elected by the people, he is not an mep- he isn't a politician.... at best he's a unelected bureaucrat but most just think he's scum..... including poland..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 nasty nicky reckons may will fail and labour will gain power..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 9 hours ago, woolley said: We have to recognise that and come up with a formula around which we can start to rebuild some national unity. losing less than 12 mp's Vs 70+..... it only took 2 mp's to leave and dave got the jitters...... if (as first polls show) the tories don't mess around.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, woody2 said: nasty nicky reckons may will fail and labour will gain power..... The way that our electoral system works if Corbyn can gain some marginal seats Labour could well gain power. The "cards" Labour are playing are very attractive to the electorate in many of the Marginals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 May probably ran her brexit plan past Merkel who seems to have given it a tentative nod. Who cares that Davis and Johnson have gone? Both were ineffective and were only given the roles thanks probably to Sun Tzu: "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer still" The whole thing seems to me to have brought into sharp relief just how awful our press and politicians are. Some posters....? Watched John Cleese on Newsnight last night. He pointed out how once again the UK press has come bottom for " trust and belief" - no surprises there. He's decided to leave the UK as a consequence of the UK going to ratshit - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06df6qd Can't fault the logic..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, P.K. said: May probably ran her brexit plan past Merkel who seems to have given it a tentative nod. Who cares that Davis and Johnson have gone? Both were ineffective and were only given the roles thanks probably to Sun Tzu: "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer still" The whole thing seems to me to have brought into sharp relief just how awful our press and politicians are. Some posters....? Watched John Cleese on Newsnight last night. He pointed out how once again the UK press has come bottom for " trust and belief" - no surprises there. He's decided to leave the UK as a consequence of the UK going to ratshit - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06df6qd Can't fault the logic..... If Fleece was even remotely funny he would be a clown. Emphasised this by the rubbish he is coming out with where BREXIT is concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, Rog said: If Fleece was even remotely funny he would be a clown. Emphasised this by the rubbish he is coming out with where BREXIT is concerned. Dear me. Despite his latest divorce settlement costing £12m with a further £600k pa he's still worth around £8m. You may not think he's funny but as he can obviously turn a bob or two he gets the last laugh. On his divorce: " I got off lightly. Think what I'd have had to pay Alyce if she had contributed anything to the relationship – such as children, or a conversation...." He was a public supporter and voted for - Brexit! Been a Lib-Dem since it's inception and turned down a life peerage. Interesting chap clearly with principles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Strange. Apart from a short time the other week I've had Woody2 on "ignore" which seems to have stopped working even though he/she/it is on my profile list. What gives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 10 hours ago, woolley said: There are extremely principled people who support Brexit, not just the likes of Boris. I'm not about to rehearse all the reasons yet again, but let us see what happens. I do actually think that "pragmatic, slow and measured" is the plan and that is what we are about to get. Of course, as is the human experience in general, it could yet go pear-shaped, and the government could fall, but I believe enough will be content (relieved?) to embrace it and move on, and it will turn out to be an agreeable place to be and to develop future policy from. Of course, I believe that the last thing the UK will ever want to do is to put the process into reverse, but so long as those who want it have that comfort blanket for the present, and it brings them on board to achieve Brexit, it's a price worth paying and the careerist MPs you speak of can sell it to both sides of the electorate. I think May and her team deserve some credit for this. I might be 100% anti-EU, but I understand that it was a 52/48 split on a major issue. We have to recognise that and come up with a formula around which we can start to rebuild some national unity. The four central tenets of the EU are and remain "the free movement across borders of goods, services, finance and labour...." These are indivisible. The UK chose Brexit because 52% of those who cast their vote wanted shot of Johnny Foreigner and an end to the free movement of labour. Simple as. It appears they struggled with the meaning of the word "indivisible" and our politicians have been struggling with it ever since. What could possibly go wrong....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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