So the UK is finished says Theresa Mayhem

[woolley]

2 hours ago, P.K. said:

May probably ran her brexit plan past Merkel who seems to have given it a tentative nod.

Who cares that Davis and Johnson have gone? Both were ineffective and were only given the roles thanks probably to Sun Tzu:

"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer still"

The whole thing seems to me to have brought into sharp relief just how awful our press and politicians are.

Some posters....?

Watched John Cleese on Newsnight last night. He pointed out how once again the UK press has come bottom for " trust and belief" - no surprises there. He's decided to leave the UK as a consequence of the UK going to ratshit - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06df6qd

Can't fault the logic.....

Cleese was a Brexit supporter. Just doesn't like the mess they've made of the process. He's like all luvvies though. Can't make his mind up what he supports. Liked New Labour, flirted with LibDems for years, then comes out for Brexit. Who cares what his flavour of the month is now?

Edited July 11, 2018 by woolley

[woolley]

2 hours ago, P.K. said:

Dear me.

Despite his latest divorce settlement costing £12m with a further £600k pa he's still worth around £8m. You may not think he's funny but as he can obviously turn a bob or two he gets the last laugh. On his divorce:

" I got off lightly. Think what I'd have had to pay Alyce if she had contributed anything to the relationship – such as children, or a conversation...."

He was a public supporter and voted for - Brexit!

Been a Lib-Dem since it's inception and turned down a life peerage.

Interesting chap clearly with principles

 

 

He is funny, I'll grant you that. Except his recent tv series which was dire.

[P.K.]

1 minute ago, woolley said:

Cleese was a Brexit supporter. Just doesn't like the mess they've made of the process. He's like all luvvies though. Can't make his mind up wht he supports. Liked New Labour, flirted with LibDems for years, then comes out for Brexit. Who cares what his flavour of the month is now?

Maybe it was a push for "National Treasure" status 

"Cleese said the standard of debate around Brexit had been awful.

The long-time Liberal Democrat supporter, who turned down a life peerage in 1999, has been a vocal supporter of electoral and press reform. He expressed his disappointment that both proportional representation and the second phase of the Leveson inquiry into press standards had been “kicked out by rightwing governments”, adding: “I just thought to myself: ‘Right I’ll just give up and try somewhere else.’”

Cleese, who backed leave in the 2016 EU referendum, went on to brand the standard of debate around Brexit “one of the most depressing things about this country”.

“There were dreadful lies on the right about all the money that would come into the National Health Service,” he said. On the other hand, remainers such as David Cameron and George Osborne used scare tactics, Cleese claimed.

“Very few people have any idea of what’s actually going to happen. Why’s everyone so passionate when they can’t possibly know what the outcome is?” he asked.

[woolley]

1 hour ago, P.K. said:

The four central tenets of the EU are and remain "the free movement across borders of goods, services, finance and labour...."

These are indivisible.

The UK chose Brexit because 52% of those who cast their vote wanted shot of Johnny Foreigner and an end to the free movement of labour.

Simple as.

It appears they struggled with the meaning of the word "indivisible" and our politicians have been struggling with it ever since.

What could possibly go wrong....?

That's for members. As we will not be a member we will have to negotiate other arrangements as do all third countries. If those arrangements keep us close for the time being then that is a pragmatic position we will have to adopt. It does not make us a colony or a vassal state as claimed by some of the more strident commentators. I think if May can stay in power and sustain the course she has taken, history will take a kinder view of her leadership than seems likely at the moment. We'll see.

Edited July 11, 2018 by woolley

[woolley]

4 hours ago, Rog said:

The referendum asked one question. The result was that the majority want out. The EU is an undemocratic disaster. It's getting worse by the day. To hell with some sort of soft exit.  Just let us get out.  There is no price that is too high in order to achieve this.

I agree Rog, but with some people it is all black or all white. They see nothing in between. They do not understand that sometimes patience will get you where you want to be, whereas impetuosity will see you back where you started.

[P.K.]

5 minutes ago, woolley said:

That's for members. As we will not be a member we will have to negotiate other arrangements as do all third countries. If those arrangements keep us close for the time being then that is a pragmatic position we will have to adopt. It does not make us a colony or a vassal state as claimed by some of the more strident commentators. I think if May can stay in power and sustain the course she has taken, history will take a kinder view of her leadership than seems likely at the moment. We'll see.

Sure, but as Trump could not fail to have noticed Tusk is a very hard-nosed professional politician. If he says no cherry picking he means it.

As to negotiating a la all third countries that is bs. You seem to forget we are leaving the EU, the EU is NOT leaving us.

[Rog]

27 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Maybe it was a push for "National Treasure" status 

"Cleese said the standard of debate around Brexit had been awful.

The long-time Liberal Democrat supporter, who turned down a life peerage in 1999, has been a vocal supporter of electoral and press reform. He expressed his disappointment that both proportional representation and the second phase of the Leveson inquiry into press standards had been “kicked out by rightwing governments”, adding: “I just thought to myself: ‘Right I’ll just give up and try somewhere else.’”

Cleese, who backed leave in the 2016 EU referendum, went on to brand the standard of debate around Brexit “one of the most depressing things about this country”.

“There were dreadful lies on the right about all the money that would come into the National Health Service,” he said. On the other hand, remainers such as David Cameron and George Osborne used scare tactics, Cleese claimed.

“Very few people have any idea of what’s actually going to happen. Why’s everyone so passionate when they can’t possibly know what the outcome is?” he asked.

There was absolutely no committment that any savings from escaping from the EU would be diverted to the NHS instead.

[woolley]

4 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Sure, but as Trump could not fail to have noticed Tusk is a very hard-nosed professional politician. If he says no cherry picking he means it.

As to negotiating a la all third countries that is bs. You seem to forget we are leaving the EU, the EU is NOT leaving us.

It's a negotiation and a starting position in a negotiation is not the end result.. Both sides have vested interests in their own camps that they have to satisfy. We are parting company with the EU. Who is leaving who is irrelevant to a future arrangement that needs sorting out to mutual satisfaction, and there will have to be compromise on both sides. I'd hate to have you negotiate any sort of a deal for me. The other party would set out its opening gambit and you'd say: "Oh. Alright then." and sign on the dotted line.

[woolley]

1 minute ago, Rog said:

There was absolutely no committment that any savings from escaping from the EU would be diverted to the NHS instead.

NHS is getting that money anyway, come what may.

[Rog]

11 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Sure, but as Trump could not fail to have noticed Tusk is a very hard-nosed professional politician. If he says no cherry picking he means it.

As to negotiating a la all third countries that is bs. You seem to forget we are leaving the EU, the EU is NOT leaving us.

Based the cost to us from membership of the loathsome EU I disagree!

[P.K.]

2 minutes ago, Rog said:

Based the cost to us from membership of the loathsome EU I disagree!

Of course you do!

[Rog]

2 hours ago, P.K. said:

The four central tenets of the EU are and remain "the free movement across borders of goods, services, finance and labour...."

These are indivisible.

The UK chose Brexit because 52% of those who cast their vote wanted shot of Johnny Foreigner and an end to the free movement of labour.

Simple as.

It appears they struggled with the meaning of the word "indivisible" and our politicians have been struggling with it ever since.

What could possibly go wrong....?

BREXIT was chosen because the majority of people wanted sovereignty back and an end to being ripped off by the EU commission.

[P.K.]

4 minutes ago, woolley said:

It's a negotiation and a starting position in a negotiation is not the end result.. Both sides have vested interests in their own camps that they have to satisfy. We are parting company with the EU. Who is leaving who is irrelevant to a future arrangement that needs sorting out to mutual satisfaction, and there will have to be compromise on both sides. I'd hate to have you negotiate any sort of a deal for me. The other party would set out its opening gambit and you'd say: "Oh. Alright then." and sign on the dotted line.

Errrr I think you'll find "mutual satisfaction" isn't necessarily going to be an output.

As I posted previously "We're leaving them...." etc etc

[woolley]

9 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Errrr I think you'll find "mutual satisfaction" isn't necessarily going to be an output.

As I posted previously "We're leaving them...." etc etc

You really are a total defeatist, aren't you? Inveterate, doomsaying troll. There will be a negotiation and there will be compromise on both sides.

[RIchard Britten]

2 minutes ago, woolley said:

You really are a total defeatist, aren't you? Inveterate, doomsaying troll. There will be a negotiation and there will be compromise on both sides.

History, as they say, is written by the victors.

You call it a compromise, I think someone is going to get bent over.  And more than likely it will be the UK.