Freggyragh Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 On customs union - the EU only legislates to ensure common standards and open markets - for U.K. services as well - if there’s a specific rule you don’t like, why not give an example. Free trade agreements, including those you mention are bound by chapters and chapters of rules, reached through negotiation - not ‘sovereignty’. On trade - much of what the EU does in this area is implementation of WTO regs and FTAs with third parties. It’s not a ‘sovereignty’ issue - unless you intend to opt out of global capitalism. On fishing - you’re right, it’s not fair to judge the U.K. by previous policies - but I don’t recall Brexit campaigners demanding that U.K. fishermen catch far fewer fish and target sustainable species. Freedom of movement should be controlled - the U.K. could have done a lot more, but chose not to. I can’t see the U.K.’s appetite for immigrant labour reducing anytime soon - whatever happens. The ‘looser arrangement’ is probably the ideal option, but the lunatics in the kitchen will mostly be breaking eggs from the U.K.’s basket, and I wouldn’t bank on those galloping gourmets making any kind of omelette. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 8 hours ago, Freggyragh said: Freedom of movement should be controlled - the U.K. could have done a lot more, but chose not to. I can’t see the U.K.’s appetite for immigrant labour reducing anytime soon - whatever happens. utter rubbish "call me dave" tried and got nowhere...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Quote Their meeting comes as the European Commission is instructing other EU states to prepare for a no-deal Brexit. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44880968 it's getting nearer..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 5 hours ago, woody2 said: utter rubbish "call me dave" tried and got nowhere...... Yes, but he tried to negotiate new rules, or an opt out of existing rules, instead of applying the existing rules. Wasted time and effort. The failure has always been that of the UK to have a registration scheme and make people return if they hadn’t got jobs within 3 months. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 15 hours ago, woolley said: monetary policy Not applicable. Sovereignty already with U.K. Agree. For the moment. But who knows what happens in the future? We almost fell into the euro once, courtesy of Blair. The EU has form for being the slipperiest of slippery slopes. Treaty after treaty; keep voting until you get the right result etc. It’s odd, isn’t it, that there are still a list of countries who want to pool sovereignty and join, and only this week another EU member, not in the Euro, has applied for admission to ERM2, which will mean joining the Euro in 18 months to 2 years. The whole structure is a work in progress. Better to be in on decision making, than take home the ball and sulk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 18 minutes ago, John Wright said: Yes, but he tried to negotiate new rules, or an opt out of existing rules, instead of applying the existing rules. Wasted time and effort. The failure has always been that of the UK to have a registration scheme and make people return if they hadn’t got jobs within 3 months. what and disregard the ruling of the ecj.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 34 minutes ago, woody2 said: what and disregard the ruling of the ecj.... There isn’t one that says what you claim. Cognitive dissonance and selective misreading again. See closed 8 months thread for elucidation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 33 minutes ago, John Wright said: now It’s odd, isn’t it, that there are still a list of countries who want to pool sovereignty and join, and only this week another EU member, not in the Euro, has applied for admission to ERM2, which will mean joining the Euro in 18 months to 2 years. The whole structure is a work in progress. Better to be in on decision making, than take home the ball and sulk. I lived in Texas many years ago and people told me that Texas and Louisiana both had the right to secede from the Union (USA).."Texit" and "Louisit"... They huff and puff...You see the bumper stickers "Secede now!"...They do not do so for much the same reason as the UK is finding it hard to leave what is now the EU without some sort of price/consequences....Texas and Louisiana were in the other great attempt at a "Brexit" ie the Confederate States...Every effort was made to preserve the Union hence the Civil War....("The Union for ever! Hurrah boys hurrah!)…Songs of that era were compulsory in music lessons at school in my time anyway. It is now almost 100 years since Ireland (The most part of it) left the UK (Union) by stages and even now the ties are as a strong as ever witness their concerns over Brexit and trade plus the family links in that irrespective of Brexit and the EU the Irish are never to be seen as aliens in the UK due to the Ireland Act 1949. They have free movement predating the EC/EU. The British colonies in Australia were federated in 1901 as States. The seat of government was Melbourne until the late 1920s when Canberra was created. Despite this the ties to the UK remain close although Australia slowly drifted towards the USA after the fall of Singapore as Britain was unable to defend Australia. Nevertheless, when we joined the Common Market Australia and New Zealand suffered trade loss and it took a long time to heal. Australia is 117 years old and much of it still resembles the British way of things plus Americanisation. But still close ties exist. The USA did not achieve monetary union until 1911 I recall hearing from Alistair Cook on "Letter from America"...So the USA was created or recognised in 1784, reconstituted from 1865 and yet had not monetary union until 1911 which I make 127 years to get there. The USA did not achieve an official national anthem until 1931 (Act of Congress President Hoover). Its tune is British 1783-4 and the lyric written on board a British warship in 1814. The USA still uses the British National Anthem "My Country 'tis of Thee".. The point I am working towards is that breaking away is never easy and usually produces unintended situations and events not foreseen over much longer time scales than we imagine or wish for. The way I see it the "Chequers Plan" is a bit like Ireland leaving the UK and creating a nebulous Free State having Dominion status. It was a bit delusional and Ireland is still tied closely to the UK even now. "Chequers" resembles "The British Free State" with the EU having Dominion. Frankly, I think that is how it will end up however you dress it over all with flags. I say that whatever happens we will not be going back to some pre-EU/EC glory days when Britain allegedly stood alone (Propped up by the USA and its loans). I recall when the UK had to borrow often from the USA just to keep the welfare state going and to fight Empire withdrawal rearguard actions. I recall seeing our Prime Minister trotting off to Washington to get loans. It took ages to create an Irish Republic and even that is not over. It took ages to create an Australia and ages to create a USA.. What makes us think that we can create/recreate an EU free zone of global trading UK after all that has been woven together over the past 43 years? The world we seem to want to return to has gone. I see the EU having the same stresses as the USA and look how long that took to progress...But I do not believe that the EU (The "Union") will break up. Brexit I think may change it a lot but it will pull the wagons in a circle and I think survive. I do not believe many want to go through what the UK is suffering. To me, Brexit is starting to resemble Suez and the USA gave that the deep six. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Not quite right Barry, on the dollar front. The constitution gave the sole right to mint coin to the Federal Government in 1789. However there was no central bank until 1914 and no real banking union. Cheques from out of state were only cashed at a discount, the discount increasing the further you got from the east coast. Paper notes were often only accepted at 90-95 cents to the dollar in coin. Even after the Fed was established there were 12 Regional Reserve Banks, who each set interest rates for their region separately. It wasn’t until 1935 that interest rate setting was centrally established and monetary union finally integrated and arrived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 hours ago, John Wright said: There isn’t one that says what you claim. Cognitive dissonance and selective misreading again. See closed 8 months thread for elucidation yes there is.... the dutch have the same system you propose, it meets eu rules yet they don't use it due to ecj caselaw..... you haven't a clue..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 don't forget to get your international licence folks before the uk leaves..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Bobster Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 minute ago, woody2 said: don't forget to get your international licence folks before the uk leaves..... Heard that on BBCR4 Today this morning. Projected increase from 200k pa to 7m permits to be issued! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, Bobbie Bobster said: Heard that on BBCR4 Today this morning. Projected increase from 200k pa to 7m permits to be issued! only if you intend to drive in the eu and no deal is done otherwise not effected..... i already have one..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Bobster Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, woody2 said: i already have one..... Phew, you don't know what a huge relief that is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Bobbie Bobster said: Heard that on BBCR4 Today this morning. Projected increase from 200k pa to 7m permits to be issued! It’s a scare story, just like going back to green cards. Licenses and insurance is dealt with under the Vienna Convention on International Road Traffic Circulation. Nothing is likely to change. But it may be harder to swap a UK or IoM license for an EU one if you move permanently. Edited July 19, 2018 by John Wright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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