woody2 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 4 hours ago, John Wright said: Zero inward tariffs, ie one sided free trade, will kill what’s left of UK manufacturing and farming. It really shows what Brexit really all about, it’s the endgame of Keith Joseph, Thatcherite, Reaganomics. Complete deregulation. The working class will suffer the consequences, yes, prices will fall on imports, jobs will be lost because UK farming and manufacturing won’t be able to compete at home and will be priced out of export markets because they will still be imposing tariffs on UK exports. It’ll also result in lowered safety standards, especially in food, where we will end up with chlorinated chicken, antibiotic fed beef and dairy and GM. Of course there will be choice, read the label, but most consumers will just go for the cheapest. The lack of tariff inward duties will naturally reduce government income at a time when expenditure on unemployment etc will be rising I’m not doing this from a remain or leave campaigning position, the leave decision has been taken. I’m looking at, the extreme option, the probable result of what the hard brexiteers are campaigning for, a no deal. Its a critique. It’s the difference now between taking rules, with no say in their making ( JRM’s vassal state ) and shadowing EU customs and single market regulations and the other end of the spectrum option. Thats what is on offer, nothing more or less. And that is what the electorate should now be given the option to choose between. The referendum electorate chose to leave, to take back sovereignty, stop EU people coming over and immigrating. They didn’t vote to choose industrial and agricultural decimation, job losses and labour shortages in service industries. They weren’t told about those risks. 2 hours ago, pongo said: Tariffs will mean consumers paying more. And businesses which import. Those who supported Brexit will be blamed. Most of the food we eat comes from the EU. The middle classes (ie the majority) especially. It's not as if we are realistically likely to start sourcing pasta, tinned tomatoes, olive oil or cheeses from the US or the Commonwealth. Nor should we. And a whole range of other food ingredients which most modern people eat a few times every week. The UK climate is too damp to replicate many of the food items we all mostly typically buy from abroad these days. People are not going to want to go back to a world of mild cheddar, stewed cabbage and mince. Import tariffs would be stupid. Any government introducing them would quickly be voted out. Not only consumers but also businesses which import would be negatively affected. you remainiac just dont get it at all do you..... the uk can quite happily set what ever standards it deems necessary for medicines, food, food production,vehicles, whatever. if standards aren't met no import. its simple...... uk can also set the tariff as well... double win. then the uk only get good quality stuff when they need. all remarkably simple..... its already been priced up under wto- prices would drop...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 5 hours ago, John Wright said: Thats what is on offer, nothing more or less. And that is what the electorate should now be given the option to choose between. aka the nevenendum...... why not have one weekly...... why not get noel edmonds to host a weekly "deport or no deport"....... it took around 4 months last time to get the legislation past...... electoral commission want 6 months after the legislation is past before a referendum is voted on..... and after all that it won't solve the problem of the undemocratic remoans who have caused this mess...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 #sweden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 55 minutes ago, woody2 said: the uk can quite happily set what ever standards it deems necessary for medicines, food, food production,vehicles, whatever. if standards aren't met no import. its simple...... uk can also set the tariff as well... double win. then the uk only get good quality stuff when they need. all remarkably simple..... its already been priced up under wto- prices would drop...... So, the U.K. will just be able to tell the rest of the world what it’s terms of trade are and set whatever non-tariff trade barriers it likes - and then it’ll get loads of great free-trade deals, and all in time for Brexit? Your imagination never fails to impress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 44 minutes ago, Freggyragh said: So, the U.K. will just be able to tell the rest of the world what it’s terms of trade are and set whatever non-tariff trade barriers it likes - and then it’ll get loads of great free-trade deals, and all in time for Brexit? Your imagination never fails to impress. it doesn't have to...... but its already established you have no idea on the wto...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Just now, woody2 said: its already established that I have no idea on the wto...... Even Liam Fox understands that the UK does not currently have its own WTO schedules. Meanwhile WTO limbo according to most legal experts. Nobody has a clue what that might mean. Especially you. https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-wto/brexit-advances-at-wto-as-britain-sets-out-new-services-terms-diplomats-idUKKCN1GC2JH Quote Britain needs to disentangle its WTO membership agreement from the European Union’s, and has yet to draft a similar text for trade in goods, expected to be much more complicated because of the need to share out agricultural import quotas. Every member of the WTO has its own pair of schedules - one document covering services trade and one covering merchandise trade - which are essentially its membership agreements setting out what it agreed to when it joined the Geneva-based body. But when the WTO was created in 1995, the EU submitted schedules covering all its members, so Britain’s membership was never spelled out in black and white. Britain’s plan to leave the EU means it needs to get its paperwork in order so that it can negotiate trade deals independently. Any of the other 163 WTO members could object to Britain’s services schedule if they felt it infringed their rights, but documentation in that area is seen as relatively straightforward because the 23-year-old document is not very restrictive. Trade Minister Liam Fox told Britain’s parliament last November that his first priority was to secure Britain’s own WTO schedules, before moving onto EU free trade agreements (FTAs) with other countries, and then negotiating new FTAs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Sometime around 2030 I guess Britain might be ready to leave the EU. Not just sorting out the whole WTO thing and converting the M20 into truck parking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 hour ago, woody2 said: aka the nevenendum...... why not have one weekly...... why not get noel edmonds to host a weekly "deport or no deport"....... it took around 4 months last time to get the legislation past...... electoral commission want 6 months after the legislation is past before a referendum is voted on..... and after all that it won't solve the problem of the undemocratic remoans who have caused this mess...... I never mentioned a second referendum. The first referendum was advisory. It was the motion in the Commons that’s binding. A general election on what to do would take 6 weeks. Brexiteers ignore democracy, and the right of voters and parliament to change its mind. We wouldn’t have elections with Brexiteers philosophy. No, it’s not those wanting to remain that have caused the mess, it’s the rudderless, leaderless, split, Tories, who got us into the mess, with Dozy Dave, and May, trying to heal their party ( not a success) and cling on to power ( and their grip is weakening ). Its nothing to do with what’s best for UK, all to do with the Tories and their survival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, woody2 said: you remainiac just dont get it at all do you..... the uk can quite happily set what ever standards it deems necessary for medicines, food, food production,vehicles, whatever. if standards aren't met no import. its simple...... uk can also set the tariff as well... double win. then the uk only get good quality stuff when they need. all remarkably simple..... its already been priced up under wto- prices would drop...... I’m not a remainiac. I made that clear. I said I was analysing where we are. You don’t respond or deal with any of the specifics. i really fear for your reading ability, inability to comprehend and general cognitive dissonance. Your proposals are for a little England picking and choosing what it lets in and what tariffs it imposes. It ignores the responses of those to whom we need to sell, whether in EU ( or covered by EU trade agreements ) or elsewhere. Thats not how WTO or bilateral agreements work. Yes we can operate on our own and have no tariffs, some things will be cheaper, but we are going to be hit with new tariffs on over 50% of our exports to the EU. The tariffs on exports to all the rest of the world will stay the same as now. We don’t get any reduction or benefit. So, W2, spell out what is the advantage to the UK in that? If the UK wants to commit economic suicide, by a no agreement brexit, it can. It’s decided to leave. The next step is deciding the terms, good, indifferent, bad or catastrophic. Edited July 20, 2018 by John Wright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 12 hours ago, pongo said: Even Liam Fox understands that the UK does not currently have its own WTO schedules. Meanwhile WTO limbo according to most legal experts. Nobody has a clue what that might mean. Especially you. https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-wto/brexit-advances-at-wto-as-britain-sets-out-new-services-terms-diplomats-idUKKCN1GC2JH yes the uk does have its own uk only schedules which are submitted by the eu...... the uk has schedules ready to go on leaving as stated in parliament in the last week..... you and fragile don't understand wto, submitting schedules allows trade to continue....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 11 hours ago, John Wright said: I never mentioned a second referendum. The first referendum was advisory. It was the motion in the Commons that’s binding. A general election on what to do would take 6 weeks. Brexiteers ignore democracy, and the right of voters and parliament to change its mind. We wouldn’t have elections with Brexiteers philosophy. No, it’s not those wanting to remain that have caused the mess, it’s the rudderless, leaderless, split, Tories, who got us into the mess, with Dozy Dave, and May, trying to heal their party ( not a success) and cling on to power ( and their grip is weakening ). Its nothing to do with what’s best for UK, all to do with the Tories and their survival. remainiac rubbish...... a ge won't change anything...... as has been proven this week only a handful of tories support remain..... face it you lost..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 One wonders how democratic WTO is? Do we elect them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 the eu is just a fascist dictatorship..... 17% is added to the cost of food due to the single market...... animals injected with antibiotics due to the rancid lack of care on eu farms..... same process is banned in the usa...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) Hey after brexit we can benefit (sic.) from US meat produced with the help of hormones. That meat is banned in the EU. Edited July 21, 2018 by ballaughbiker typo with a è Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 2 hours ago, woody2 said: the eu is just a fascist dictatorship.... You should feel right at home then, but I thought it was the EUSSR to you? 2 hours ago, woody2 said: 17% is added to the cost of food due to the single market...... That’s your alleged figure for an average on inward food, it’s actually less, but of course there is currently no inward tariff on food entering the UK from the EU and the WTO tariffs would average higher, and apply to EU produced food as well , so there’s only an advantage if UK goes for zero tariffs, and I’ve set out the consequences of that earlier, and you haven’t rebutted. 2 hours ago, woody2 said: animals injected with antibiotics due to the rancid lack of care on eu farms..... same process is banned in the usa...... Fully accept that there are unacceptable standards all over the world, and that animals needing constant antibiotics or hormone growth accelerators are receiving poor welfare and shouldn’t enter the food chain. Problem with US standards is the huge industrial warehouse production of beef, dairy, poultry full of growth hormone. Low cost, low quality. And GM? Again I’ve highlighted the dangers of the rush to the bottom price wise, on tax revenues and loss of domestic production ( ignoring production, safety and welfare standards ) and again you don’t engage, just dismiss, because to do so would challenge your beliefs, and you can’t let inconvenient truth do that, can you? It makes you too uncomfortable. So you blunder on, making up “facts” to bolster your beliefs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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