woody2 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 so the uk submitted its own wto schedules on the 19th of july....... and yesterday the eu and uk separately submitted plans for future trade..... Quote Bryce Baschuk @bbaschuk 11h11 hours ago Today the UK and EU moved a step closer to unwinding their joint @wto trade relationship. Each filed documents in Geneva outlining the terms they will use to trade with the rest of the world once Britain leaves the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 11 hours ago, woody2 said: if the eu can't do anything to the irish border because its not the eu's legal right to do so, what other choice have they got but to remove ireland from the eu Ireland will not be leaving the EU and I doubt that even you really believe that. It's a temporary and artificial border for which there is ever diminishing support. 7 minutes ago, woody2 said: so the uk submitted its own wto schedules on the 19th of july....... and yesterday the eu and uk separately submitted plans for future trade..... It's very early days. There is fundamental disagreement between over how to deal with agriculture. Quote Seven agricultural suppliers - including the United States, Canada and Australia - have already said they disapprove of the terms of the divorce, since they will lose flexibility to switch exports between Britain and the rest of the EU. Their objections are likely to force Britain into a wider negotiation, said David Henig, a former British trade official who now leads the UK Trade Policy Project at the European Centre for International Political Economy (ECIPE). https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-wto/britain-and-eu-formally-start-splitting-wto-membership-agreements-idUKKBN1KE2LJ The "wider negotiation" casually mentioned hinges on a difference between the London government and the EU about whether the agriculture issue can be addressed without a full renegotiation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, pongo said: Ireland will not be leaving the EU and I doubt that even you really believe that. It's a temporary and artificial border for which there is ever diminishing support. so who controls international agreements....... clearly not the eu........ no loophole in the sm according to the eu..... only leaves one option..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, pongo said: It's very early days. There is fundamental disagreement between over how to deal with agriculture. The "wider negotiation" casually mentioned hinges on a difference between the London government and the EU about whether the agriculture issue can be addressed without a full renegotiation. they are going after the eu not the uk..... a full negotiation doesn't stop trade..... the uk has also submitted its own schedules so splitting of the trq's won't matter..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, woody2 said: so who controls international agreements....... clearly not the eu........ no loophole in the sm according to the eu..... only leaves one option..... You seem to be arguing a point which nobody made. The EU has never argued that it controls the border. Only that there can be no agreement which does not adequately take into account the terms of the GFA. The GFA also precludes any hard border. So difficult to see any no - deal WTO outcome. Unless the UK either unilaterally abolishes tariffs or abandons the GFA. Since a WTO border is by definition a hard border. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 The obvious solution is to timetable reunification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 23 minutes ago, pongo said: You seem to be arguing a point which nobody made. The EU has never argued that it controls the border. Only that there can be no agreement which does not adequately take into account the terms of the GFA. The GFA also precludes any hard border. So difficult to see any no - deal WTO outcome. Unless the UK either unilaterally abolishes tariffs or abandons the GFA. Since a WTO border is by definition a hard border. whoosh...... the eu has no say on the border..... how can it protect the sm without control..... they have shot themselves in the foot...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 24 minutes ago, pongo said: The obvious solution is to timetable reunification. by march and against the will of the people? dream on....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, woody2 said: whoosh...... the eu has no say on the border..... how can it protect the sm without control..... Everyone knows that the EU has "no say" on the border. Nobody has ever said that it does. But the EU has said that it will reject any agreement which does not respect the terms of the GFA. Nor will they accept any agreement which creates exceptional membership of the Single Market. And why should they? A no deal WTO solution would mean a hard border. And that would apparently mean the UK breaking the terms of the GFA. So who has shot themselves in the foot? Especially given that the WTO negotiations are going to require good will internationally. ETA: to be fair - it's also potentially going to be a problem for the Irish govt and the WTO. Perhaps Britain and Ireland should quit the WTO as well. Edited July 25, 2018 by pongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 No deal would mean no transition period - since the transition period is contingent on a deal. So Brexit would happen over night. With very little preparation. Can you really imagine Parliament voting for that? But if Parliament rejects no deal then the EU has said that Article 50 can only be extended in order to facilitate a new referendum. So who has shot themselves in the foot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 2 hours ago, pongo said: So who has shot themselves in the foot? One way, or another, the entire British electorate and lets face it a Brexit Ref II would only result in more division and turmoil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Bobster Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 44 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: One way, or another, the entire British electorate and lets face it a Brexit Ref II would only result in more division and turmoil. All we need is ole Uncle Jesse to wag his finger at both sides and they'd behave! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 3 hours ago, pongo said: Everyone knows that the EU has "no say" on the border. Nobody has ever said that it does. But the EU has said that it will reject any agreement which does not respect the terms of the GFA. Nor will they accept any agreement which creates exceptional membership of the Single Market. And why should they? A no deal WTO solution would mean a hard border. And that would apparently mean the UK breaking the terms of the GFA. So who has shot themselves in the foot? Especially given that the WTO negotiations are going to require good will internationally. ETA: to be fair - it's also potentially going to be a problem for the Irish govt and the WTO. Perhaps Britain and Ireland should quit the WTO as well. its a problem for the eu and ireland..... no requirement for the uk to stay in anything under gfa, uk won't break anything..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, woody2 said: its a problem for the eu and ireland..... no requirement for the uk to stay in anything under gfa, uk won't break anything..... It's a problem for Britain too, unless Britain is planning to quit the WTO. Because WTO basically requires enforcement of border controls. And GFA commits Britain to maintaining completely open border. Also - nobody is going to want to stand at any newly imposed border crossing wearing a uniform. The London Parliament is not going to vote through a no deal outcome. It would mean leaving with no transition period - overnight. Chaos. Edited July 25, 2018 by pongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 3 hours ago, pongo said: No deal would mean no transition period - since the transition period is contingent on a deal. So Brexit would happen over night. With very little preparation. Can you really imagine Parliament voting for that? But if Parliament rejects no deal then the EU has said that Article 50 can only be extended in order to facilitate a new referendum. So who has shot themselves in the foot? parliament can only accept or reject mays deal...... chances are they will reject...... no need for another referendum, it doesn't solve anything, change of leader..... from the eu's side all they are interested in is money, which is why barmy will if needed drop the backstop, the don't care about anything but the cash- asking the other 27 for £1 billion+ each will finish the eu.... they will then push for an extension and keep it going for years...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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