John Wright Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 27 minutes ago, woody2 said: correct..... none of that the uk has due to eu membership....... No they’re the values set out in the British drafted European Convention of Human Rights, and in the EU treaties. Values that you and the brexiteers want to see emasculated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 26 minutes ago, woody2 said: nothing to say about ze germans running a tax haven Er, nope, should I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, pongo said: Really? You're really going to do this? As I said: Time is coming for normals to take sides. By normals I mean sensible centrist Conservatives and moderate Socialists. And Liberals. The sort of people we would like to know. People who perhaps disagree on the small things but agree on the big things. If you are making excuses for attacking a bookshop or pretend, Trump like, that it is "fakenews" then you are anti British. Or perhaps just being a twat basically. no1 on twitter right now is #resignwatson...... they are calling him far-right..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 1 minute ago, woody2 said: no1 on twitter right now is #resignwatson...... they are calling him far-right..... I don't care what is trending on Twitter. It should be shut down. The internet was never intended for people like you to cause trouble. Stop trying to justify populist extremism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, woody2 said: nah... a few leftwing nutter groups made a load of false reports according to the police report submitted to parliament...... YouGov figures moron: Police recorded crime In 2016/17, there were 80,393 offences recorded by the police in which one or more hate crime strands were deemed to be a motivating factor. This was an increase of 29 per cent compared with the 62,518 hate crimes recorded in 2015/16, the largest percentage increase seen since the series began in 2011/12. The increase over the last year is thought to reflect both a genuine rise in hate crime around the time of the EU referendum and also due to ongoing improvements in crime recording by the police. The Office for National Statistics have stated that increases in recent years in police recorded violence against the person and public order offences have been driven by improvements in police recording. Around nine in ten hate crime offences recorded by the police are in these two offence groups. ETA - The whole sorry, shameful, disgusting indictment of some parts of modern UK society: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hate-crime-england-and-wales-2016-to-2017 Edited August 5, 2018 by P.K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, P.K. said: YouGov figures moron: Police recorded crime In 2016/17, there were 80,393 offences recorded by the police in which one or more hate crime strands were deemed to be a motivating factor. This was an increase of 29 per cent compared with the 62,518 hate crimes recorded in 2015/16, the largest percentage increase seen since the series began in 2011/12. The increase over the last year is thought to reflect both a genuine rise in hate crime around the time of the EU referendum and also due to ongoing improvements in crime recording by the police. The Office for National Statistics have stated that increases in recent years in police recorded violence against the person and public order offences have been driven by improvements in police recording. Around nine in ten hate crime offences recorded by the police are in these two offence groups. ETA - The whole sorry, shameful, disgusting indictment of some parts of modern UK society: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hate-crime-england-and-wales-2016-to-2017 It’s pointless P.K. W2 has clear and obvious comprehension and literacy issues and suffers from cognitive dissonance. You can take him and show him the facts, but his belief set won’t allow him to process and accept anything that demonstrates the falsity of his dogma 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phat Tog Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 46 minutes ago, pongo said: Far right hooligans in Trump masks ransack London bookshop Soon we will all have to take sides - whether to support Steve Bannon , Infowars, Trump, Tommy Robinson and co - or whether to stand up for British values of democracy, common sense and freedom. It's really that simple. And anyone who says that it isn't is the modern equivalent of a 30s fascist. Sensible Conservatives have more in common with Socialists than with the populist right. Even Farage is going to have to make this choice. Tommy Robionson and ignorant populism in general is a threat to his position too. I really wish that there actually was a deep state - rather than the idea of a deep state being a stupid conspiracy theory. 1930s fascists...As the full name of the Nazi party translates as The National Socialist German Workers' Party would that not make it extreme left, not extreme right? We now have Momentum looking to destabilise through the use of intimidation and disruption. Where have we seen that before? And Barrie? It's a bit more complicated than your two reasons. There are more than a few people who are concerned about the EU's future direction, that being a federalist state centrally controlled from Brussels. Juncker has talked about centralising budgetary control of member states and is making sure his protege Selmayr will be around to continue this concept once his time in office ends. The very term 'member states' is designed to get people away from thinking about the EU constituent countries as individual sovereign nations. I do not care for this concept one little bit which is why I voted leave. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, The Phat Tog said: 1930s fascists...As the full name of the Nazi party translates as The National Socialist German Workers' Party would that not make it extreme left, not extreme right? Not this crap again. It's incredibly sad that anyone would consider the Nazis to be anything other than extreme right wing, it is contemptible. If you genuinely believe there were left wing you need to do some reading on history. Edited August 5, 2018 by mojomonkey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, The Phat Tog said: 1930s fascists...As the full name of the Nazi party translates as The National Socialist German Workers' Party would that not make it extreme left, not extreme right? In most ways the point you are making represents obviously irrelevant pedantry. However it makes little difference whether the equivalent of a 30s fascist chooses to identify as left, right or neither. The issue is ignorant and simplistic populism - and anti democratic violence. Which side are you on - do you support the long tradition of British liberal democracy or are you another internet trouble maker? Take some time to think about it. Churchill or Mosley? Edited August 5, 2018 by pongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc.fixit Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 .........it's all so sad, however, I think the word, 'populism', is really a misnomer. To me, the word suggests that it's something that the majority of the population agree with..................Modern usage though, appears to be as an expletive aimed in a derogatory way to opinions one doesn't agree with......??????????? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Just now, doc.fixit said: I think the word, 'populism', is really a misnomer. To me, the word suggests that it's something that the majority of the population agree with The whole point of populist ideas is that they are simplistic and lowest-common-denominator. Populism is about easy (often nasty) answers rather than sensible and practical and realistic or careful and caring solutions. In most cases there are no easy answers. Populism is about bullies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc.fixit Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 .......majority or minority bullies?...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 14 minutes ago, John Wright said: It’s pointless P.K. W2 has clear and obvious comprehension and literacy issues and suffers from cognitive dissonance. You can take him and show him the facts, but his belief set won’t allow him to process and accept anything that demonstrates the falsity of his dogma If it's pointless then why do you persist in pointing out all the brexit shortcomings then John? In it's most basic form being an island nation has advantages. But a massive shortcoming for the UK is that, put simply enough for W2 and the rest of the brexiteers to understand, we simply cannot feed ourselves. This has been the UK's Achilles Heel for well over a century or more. Even during the height of the "Dig For Victory" campaigns we just about managed to produce 75% of our needs and that was with rationing in force. Right now we manage 50% with 30% from the EU and the remaining 20% from ROW. Bottom line WE HAVE TO TRADE WITH THE EU FOR FRESH PRODUCE. Currently we benefit from the EU's purchasing power to get a decent deal from ROW. With that gone the UK will be attempting to purchase 50% of our food requirements from a position of total weakness. But hey, you'll get blue passports....! I notice Mark Carney is currently being dissed by the UK right-wing press, which is to say pretty much all of it. Presumably he's been telling the truth about brexit again....? Also Liam Fox is in the news blaming the EU for the latest UK offering being kicked into the long grass. Looks like getting the retribution in first to me. It's also clearly slipped his mind that the UK opted to leave the EU and not the other way around. What a complete and utter shambles.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 7 hours ago, Barrie Stevens said: The driving force behind Brexit is two part. One, Immigration and the feeling of many that they are being overwhelmed having suffered enough when industry left. Two, people like Rees Mogg who want to be out of the EU before the chopper comes down on tax havens and fiddles under EU rules and which the IOM seems strangely silent about.... By which I mean the two parts (Part One) as perceived by the ordinary and angry punters. Personally I think we should leave the EU if it means being dragged into a federal EU version of the USA where we do not belong. The rest of it I am not sure we can live without hence "Chequers" or even EEA. I don't mind being a rule taker if we get stability for trade and can stay out of the rest of it. On the other hand had we stayed in we might have got more opt outs or held a referendum at the point when they did actually try to force us into federalism. At the moment all I can see is instability and chaos if one or both sides do not give way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, woody2 said: you posted the uk wasn't a member your lack of understanding of the wto rules is already know.... #itsamuppet You didn’t understand what I posted. I have done my best to explain to you that whilst the U.K. is a member of the WTO it does not have an independent schedule. Quote me if you think I’ve said anything different. From the WTO website: Schedules are an integral part of WTO legal texts and each member must have one for Goods and another one for Services. There are 135 schedules for the 164 WTO members. The European Union has a single Schedule for all its member states. The U.K. submitted a draft document setting out its proposal for an independent schedule to the WTO on the 24th of July 2018. If there are no objections then it will be approved within three months. If there are objections (seven countries have already indicated they will object) then the U.K. will be squeezed for extra concessions and find itself in a considerably worse trading position with the rest of the world than it had as an EU member. But hey, bendy bananas and blue passports, ya spudcock. Edited August 5, 2018 by Freggyragh neglected to mention that W2 is a spudcock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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