ballaughbiker Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 The term fake news ought to be banned on this forum like the t word. It is nearly always (read always) used to dismiss or dodge inconvenient points without ever having to justify any contrary view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 12 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: And some say this has nothing to do with xenophobia. it hasn't....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: The term fake news ought to be banned on this forum like the t word. It is nearly always (read always) used to dismiss or dodge inconvenient points without ever having to justify any contrary view. twonk...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 36 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: The term fake news ought to be banned on this forum like the t word. It is nearly always (read always) used to dismiss or dodge inconvenient points without ever having to justify any contrary view. 32 minutes ago, woody2 said: twonk...... I post up the reality of trading under WTO rules (I did it in green in the hope the brexiteers would associate it with their favoured green crayon) but it gets nary a mention. Because it puts the lie to all the nonsense being spouted by the UK right wing press, which is to say pretty much all of it, and the likes of Rees-Mogg. I watched Marcus Fysh on Newsnight last night. The man is an imbecile.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 1 hour ago, P.K. said: I post up the reality of trading under WTO rules (I did it in green in the hope the brexiteers would associate it with their favoured green crayon) but it gets nary a mention. Dear god. You don't half think a lot of yourself, plumped-up on your own self-importance. Borrowed plumage won't keep you warm corporal... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 1 hour ago, P.K. said: I post up the reality of trading under WTO rules (I did it in green in the hope the brexiteers would associate it with their favoured green crayon) but it gets nary a mention. Because it puts the lie to all the nonsense being spouted by the UK right wing press, which is to say pretty much all of it, and the likes of Rees-Mogg. I watched Marcus Fysh on Newsnight last night. The man is an imbecile.... uk already trades under wto rules...... #fakenews 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 (edited) 40 minutes ago, woody2 said: uk already trades under wto rules...... #fakenews As does every EU member state, with countries outside the EU and not covered by the numerous EU third party trade agreements. However the UK has been much less successful than many of the others in developing markets and trading on WTO terms. The question I want to hear the answer to is, having failed to trade as successfully as other EU member states under WTO, with, for example, China, how is it claimed having all our trade on WTO terms, including that with EU and the third countries ( the majority ) there are already EU trade agreements with? Those of us old enough to remember entry into the EEC will also remember the UK being the sick man of Europe, Sterling crises, devaluations, balance of payment problems, inflation at 20+% and IMF bail outs. That’s what we risk heading back to. Edited September 22, 2018 by John Wright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 1 hour ago, quilp said: Dear god. You don't half think a lot of yourself, plumped-up on your own self-importance. Borrowed plumage won't keep you warm corporal... How is your understanding of WTO rules coming along? After all, once you realise what terrible damage they would do to the UK economy only an idiot (or charlatan of which there appear to be more and more in UK politics) would ever want a hard brexit. Iirc "borrowed plumage" is from an Aesop fable. Instead of plagiarising why don't you try and be a little more original. Well, assuming you can be that is.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 7 minutes ago, John Wright said: As does every EU member state, with countries outside the EU and not covered by the numerous EU third party trade agreements. However the UK has been much less successful than many of the others in developing markets and trading on WTO terms. The question I want to hear the answer to is, having failed to trade as successfully as other EU member states under WTO, with, for example, China, how is it claimed having all our trade on WTO terms, including that with EU and the third countries ( the majority ) there are already EU trade agreements with? Those of us old enough to remember entry into the EEC will also remember the UK being the sick man of Europe, Sterling crises, devaluations, balance of payment problems, inflation at 20+% and IMF bail outs. That’s what we risk heading back to. the eu has been holding the uk and europe back-just look at the other 85% of the world not in the eu...... the uk is a very different place to 45 years ago....... when you look at the so called deals the eu have they're very poor...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, John Wright said: As does every EU member state, with countries outside the EU and not covered by the numerous EU third party trade agreements. However the UK has been much less successful than many of the others in developing markets and trading on WTO terms. The question I want to hear the answer to is, having failed to trade as successfully as other EU member states under WTO, with, for example, China, how is it claimed having all our trade on WTO terms, including that with EU and the third countries ( the majority ) there are already EU trade agreements with? Those of us old enough to remember entry into the EEC will also remember the UK being the sick man of Europe, Sterling crises, devaluations, balance of payment problems, inflation at 20+% and IMF bail outs. That’s what we risk heading back to. You can educate them as much as you like but you can never force them to understand it.... Edited September 23, 2018 by P.K. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 17 minutes ago, P.K. said: How is your understanding of WTO rules coming along? After all, once you realise what terrible damage they would do to the UK economy only an idiot (or charlatan of which there appear to be more and more in UK politics) would ever want a hard brexit. Iirc "borrowed plumage" is from an Aesop fable. Instead of plagiarising why don't you try and be a little more original. Well, assuming you can be that is.... uk already trades under wto rules...... #fakenews 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 JW speaks truth. The buzz phrase at the time was that Britain had lost an Empire and had yet to find a role. We had gradually divested ourselves of imperial baggage and colonies but also the near captive markets for goods that went with it. Our merchant navy shrank away as the newly evolved "emerging nations" wanted to go their way. Our fifteen year defence treaties with former colonies came to an end. I recall the PM or whoever going to Washington to beg loans to keep the welfare state going. The USA agreed because at that time the UK had 50,000 troops in Malaysia under its command doing something similar to what the Americans were doing in Vietnam. The UK said we need this money to keep dismantling the empire and holding back the Commies and other insurgents in Malaysia. As Washington did not want to see more trouble out East if the Brits failed we got the money. That's how bad it was. The EEC offered a refuge. Basically we joined the wagon circle that was the EEC and our boys once trained up to be Empire administrators turned their attention to Europe and indeed much of that of the now EU which is derided the UK helped inspire and form along with little opt outs for itself. It was never "Them agin us" Ireland and Denmark were so tied to the UK economically that they joined the EEC when the UK did. Seems not much has changed. I do not like the EU but even if we leave the UK will be dragged by its magnetic pull as a small satellite sun or planet. There will be no freedom as such. The UK looks set to be the Isle of Man of Europe ie Not in the EU...But! ….You know the rest of it! Still if it is immigration and foreigners that bother you then by all means Brexit hard as you like just so long as you understand the price that may have to be paid in terms of economic losses and uncertainty. May you all live in interesting times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 16 minutes ago, P.K. said: You can educate lie as much as you can but you can't force them to understand believe it.... its pure #projectfear with you....... have you thought of getting a dog...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 21 minutes ago, woody2 said: the eu has been holding the uk and europe back-just look at the other 85% of the world not in the eu...... the uk is a very different place to 45 years ago....... when you look at the so called deals the eu have they're very poor...... The UK is a different place because it incorporated many former Imperial trade and business links with its role as an ideal jumping off point into the EEC/EU and even today much business is done in the City simply because of its working day and time zones straddle so many other places. The UK reversed its Empire. It opened up to former colonies, enemies and others all the while being part of the "Europe" club. Go down the High Street you can see the Empire and the EU walking up and down. The EEC gave the UK a place and role on the world stage. The Arabs flooded the City with cash in the 1970s and until then there were still lots of old buildings and bomb holes. Arab money tidied up London. Later the Americans came in and revolutionised the City. Hence the work ethic and new buildings. But the key was the UK and its laws and systems and handy place for Europe. The Japanese and Germans came and showed us how to assemble cars but with the parts coming in and out of the EU on a just in time basis. Now we may lose all of that. I would like to know what the UK has to "trade" on its own and if you mean physical goods whose ships will you hire to carry them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 Quote parts coming in and out of the EU on a just in time basis Did I hear it right on 'wake up to money t'other day that Honda Swindon are supplied by Honda Ghent with 350 lorries each day. They ought to get Bernard Jenkin in to tell them how to go on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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