John Wright Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 1 hour ago, woody2 said: everything..... Specifically what of everything that we couldn’t do before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 58 minutes ago, woody2 said: it highlights how terrible the eu is at doing anything...... if they had sorted out future trade first no backstop would be needed...... #cartbeforethehorse No, you have to leave the club first before you can try and set up new clubs, and associations with other clubs ( with which you previously had associations through the club you were already in ). It actually shows how good the EU is at negotiating and how piss poor the UK is. It also shows how well the over riding purpose of the EU has worked, with the integration of economies, supply lines, production, capital, etc, that leaving is such a problem. There is a future outside the EU, but compared to the future inside the EU it’s much bleaker, weaker economy, less opportunity for education and mobility, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 39 minutes ago, John Wright said: Specifically what of everything that we couldn’t do before? everything..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 34 minutes ago, John Wright said: No, you have to leave the club first before you can try and set up new clubs, and associations with other clubs ( with which you previously had associations through the club you were already in ). It actually shows how good the EU is at negotiating and how piss poor the UK is. It also shows how well the over riding purpose of the EU has worked, with the integration of economies, supply lines, production, capital, etc, that leaving is such a problem. There is a future outside the EU, but compared to the future inside the EU it’s much bleaker, weaker economy, less opportunity for education and mobility, etc. untrue....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 1 hour ago, John Wright said: There is a future outside the EU, but compared to the future inside the EU it’s much bleaker, weaker economy, less opportunity for education and mobility, etc. How do you know this will be the case, with such seemingly obvious certainty, in the long term? Would you not agree that the bloc has been intent on deliberate obstruction and obfuscation in setting out the guide lines? It has been a one-sided affair as far as I can see... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Quote How do you know this will be the case, with such seemingly obvious certainty, in the long term How do brexit supporters know this won't be the case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 11 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: How do brexit supporters know this won't be the case? simple- look at those outside the eu who have done much better than the backward and declining eu..... just look at uni's- funding reduced to british citizens so they can fund more free places for eu scum..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 22 minutes ago, quilp said: How do you know this will be the case, with such seemingly obvious certainty, in the long term? Would you not agree that the bloc has been intent on deliberate obstruction and obfuscation in setting out the guide lines? It has been a one-sided affair as far as I can see... Where does the idea that the EU actually have a responsibility to do anything come from? The onus is well and truly on the UK to get a deal, the remaining members of the EU are not under the same pressure. You only have to look at the media across Europe to see that. In the UK the whole Brexit thing is headline news pretty much every day, elsewhere in Europe it gets the occasional mention but is not that high up on the news agenda. My own opinion on Brexit is that irrespective of personal views the public voted to leave. The UK should therefore leave but seek to get the best deal possible as future trade with the remaining EU members is essential. When it comes down to it a no deal Brexit is still effectively one form of a deal, I personally don’t think it would be a good one although I can accept that some think this is best possible outcome. A no deal Brexit strikes me as cutting off your nose to spite your face, the UK won’t suddenly stop having to trade with the EU. No one (Leave, Remain or even Woody) actually knows what will happen. If I was forced to make a prediction I would think it’ll end up with lots more pointless shouting about no deal before the UK basically capitulates. If I had to guess I’d say the UK will end up with basically a reduced membership that will satisfy no side, giving them most of the responsibilities and no voting rights. The main side of effect of it all will be years of infighting within the major political parties, with all sides looking to attribute blame to the other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, mojomonkey said: Where does the idea that the EU actually have a responsibility to do anything come from? The onus is well and truly on the UK to get a deal, the remaining members of the EU are not under the same pressure. You only have to look at the media across Europe to see that. In the UK the whole Brexit thing is headline news pretty much every day, elsewhere in Europe it gets the occasional mention but is not that high up on the news agenda. My own opinion on Brexit is that irrespective of personal views the public voted to leave. The UK should therefore leave but seek to get the best deal possible as future trade with the remaining EU members is essential. When it comes down to it a no deal Brexit is still effectively one form of a deal, I personally don’t think it would be a good one although I can accept that some think this is best possible outcome. A no deal Brexit strikes me as cutting off your nose to spite your face, the UK won’t suddenly stop having to trade with the EU. No one (Leave, Remain or even Woody) actually knows what will happen. If I was forced to make a prediction I would think it’ll end up with lots more pointless shouting about no deal before the UK basically capitulates. If I had to guess I’d say the UK will end up with basically a reduced membership that will satisfy no side, giving them most of the responsibilities and no voting rights. The main side of effect of it all will be years of infighting within the major political parties, with all sides looking to attribute blame to the other. they control the procedure and timetable..... uk has zero say..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, woody2 said: they control the procedure and timetable..... uk has zero say..... and? Even if that is true it does not alter what I said. Rightly or wrongly the EU does not have a responsibility to actually do anything. The ball is firmly in the UK's court, what they do with it is up to them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 mojo - there's a lot more to EU membership than just trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Quote No one (Leave, Remain or even Woody) actually knows what will happen Absolutely true. However if you are a proponent of pivotal change rather than one wanting to maintain an imperfect status quo, surely the onus is on those proponents to know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) We agreed on the procedure to leave and we controlled the timetable by initiating, at a time of our choice, a.50 of the Lisbon Treaty which was signed by one G Brown and D Miliband. Edited October 15, 2018 by ballaughbiker + at a time of etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 16 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: mojo - there's a lot more to EU membership than just trade. Of course, I simply refer to trade as I see it as fundamental to the vitality of the UK. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 I see common regulation and standards harmonisation hugely important too but we never seem to get cross about those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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