Barrie Stevens Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 The BBC Reality Check correspondent summed up the impossible situation very smartly today. The EU is essentially a legal construct made up of agreements, laws, regulations and treaties. The UK with its parliamentary system and ways has had a big hand in making these legal constructs. After 45 years of involvement with the European Project the expectation is that the legal obligations etc will take us into the 2030s to amend, unravel and extract from. This invokes the $39 billion or whatever to cover obligations entered into. Thus we will be "in" the EU one way or another for so long a whole new lot of people will grow up and mature within the status quo. Likewise, the legal construct the UK helped to create links In to EU obligations involving other countries. These too will take many years to unravel and amend, hence the European Court of Justice for such matters if no other. As regards paying nothing and crashing out breaking all agreements...Well the UK is a big borrower in the world market so as to prop up the things we take for granted and to default would be a disaster especially if you wish to "go it alone"...You would see sterling notes like Russian and Argentinian bonds made the material of lampshades and framed pictures. Pretty...pretty worthless! Some liken this situation to Michael Collins and the creation of the Irish Free State/Northern Ireland with PM May in the part of Michael Collins. ie The best I could get and I signed my own death warrant today. This whole issue reminds me of the days of the Rhodesian Federation, Sir Roy Welensky and ultimately Rhodesian UDR and Ian Smith but that is another post maybe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Just now, the stinking enigma said: It's the UK border in Ireland not the Irish border. I rather think the border is in Ireland and is therefore Irish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Sorry Woody I didn't realise you were asking me questions or for my opinion on particular statements. I don't automatically disagree with you that things could be sorted by other means (trade deals, bilateral agreements, etc.) but that does not change the fact that what is being put forward by May and her (ever decreasing) Cabinet meets the requirements for leaving the EU. Whether it satisfies people is a different matter, it certainly looks like it doesn't satisfy anyone really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Just now, Barrie Stevens said: I rather think the border is in Ireland and is therefore Irish. Surely the border is at the border! Its a matter of semantics but if I was in N. Ireland I would refer to it as the Irish Border and if I was in Eire I would refer to it as the N. Irish Border. I can't see that it actually makes any difference anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, Barrie Stevens said: The BBC Reality Check correspondent summed up the impossible situation very smartly today. The EU is essentially a legal construct made up of agreements, laws, regulations and treaties. The UK with its parliamentary system and ways has had a big hand in making these legal constructs. After 45 years of involvement with the European Project the expectation is that the legal obligations etc will take us into the 2030s to amend, unravel and extract from. This invokes the $39 billion or whatever to cover obligations entered into. Thus we will be "in" the EU one way or another for so long a whole new lot of people will grow up and mature within the status quo. Likewise, the legal construct the UK helped to create links In to EU obligations involving other countries. These too will take many years to unravel and amend, hence the European Court of Justice for such matters if no other. As regards paying nothing and crashing out breaking all agreements...Well the UK is a big borrower in the world market so as to prop up the things we take for granted and to default would be a disaster especially if you wish to "go it alone"...You would see sterling notes like Russian and Argentinian bonds made the material of lampshades and framed pictures. Pretty...pretty worthless! Some liken this situation to Michael Collins and the creation of the Irish Free State/Northern Ireland with PM May in the part of Michael Collins. ie The best I could get and I signed my own death warrant today. This whole issue reminds me of the days of the Rhodesian Federation, Sir Roy Welensky and ultimately Rhodesian UDR and Ian Smith but that is another post maybe! its not crashing out and breaks zero agreements........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, mojomonkey said: Surely the border is at the border! Its a matter of semantics but if I was in N. Ireland I would refer to it as the Irish Border and if I was in Eire I would refer to it as the N. Irish Border. I can't see that it actually makes any difference anyway. You might refer to it like that but at the end of the day it is all in Ireland and they are Irish.....I think they get round it by saying "the border" and everyone knows what they mean...After all it is nebulous like crossing from Essex to Suffolk and Suffolk to Norfolk.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said: It's the UK border in Ireland not the Irish border. does it matter..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Just now, woody2 said: its not crashing out and breaks zero agreements........ Explain to me O W2! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Just now, woody2 said: does it matter..... Well it seems to bother the government of the Republic of Ireland and which for once is in a rather controlling position against the old enemy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 8 minutes ago, mojomonkey said: Sorry Woody I didn't realise you were asking me questions or for my opinion on particular statements. I don't automatically disagree with you that things could be sorted by other means (trade deals, bilateral agreements, etc.) but that does not change the fact that what is being put forward by May and her (ever decreasing) Cabinet meets the requirements for leaving the EU. Whether it satisfies people is a different matter, it certainly looks like it doesn't satisfy anyone really. it doesn't in anyway....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Barrie Stevens said: Explain to me O W2! it not a crash as everyone knows the date..... art.50 has been complied with so nothing has been breached....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, Barrie Stevens said: Well it seems to bother the government of the Republic of Ireland and which for once is in a rather controlling position against the old enemy! no its not...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Just now, woody2 said: it doesn't in anyway....... It does, if (a big if) it is voted through Parliament and signed with the EU the UK will leave the EU on the specified dated under the terms set out within that agreement. The agreement saying things that are not agreeable to hardline exiters or hardline remainers does not make it invalid. Can you set out precisely why you think otherwise? As I alluded to earlier I think this come back to the actual referendum question that was asked not being sufficiently detailed. As you know that question simply asked “Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?” It makes no mention of what that actually means and there was no one in power that would set out in detail what it would mean if the result was leave. Hence, the blame resting firmly with the elected members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, woody2 said: it not a crash as everyone knows the date..... art.50 has been complied with so nothing has been breached....... The term "crash" refers to the possibility of "No deal"...As I said Reality Check Correspondent do listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, mojomonkey said: It does, if (a big if) it is voted through Parliament and signed with the EU the UK will leave the EU on the specified dated under the terms set out within that agreement. The agreement saying things that are not agreeable to hardline exiters or hardline remainers does not make it invalid. Can you set out precisely why you think otherwise? care to tell us when 20XX is...... 6 minutes ago, mojomonkey said: As I alluded to earlier I think this come back to the actual referendum question that was asked not being sufficiently detailed. As you know that question simply asked “Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?” It makes no mention of what that actually means and there was no one in power that would set out in detail what it would mean if the result was leave. Hence, the blame resting firmly with the elected members. it did- may's failed to deliver....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.