woody2 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: More obfuscation. However I did look it up and I bet your source was Briefings for Brexit or via someone using that as a source or just BS. Even that well-known pro- brexit site didn't confirm your view that we can use our proportion of existing EU WTO agreements if we leave without a deal. you didn't look up the already passed trade bill...... the eu can't keep the uk% of trade deals, it has to redo the lot.... its under the wto not eu...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, woody2 said: yes thanks..... one day you'll find the correct graph rather than random links...... They are not random links though, they are information on the subject in hand from Government sources. One more chance, give us a link to support your assertion. If you don’t I (and I suspect others) will have to conclude that you’re talking bollocks. I really don’t get why you are so against supporting your claims with actual fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 "Audience member at CBI pleads May not to sign the deal and says don’t listen to CBI voice of ‘european industry’ " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 W2 won't give links because we shall have to guess where he is looking. That's a great opportunity to then diss where we are looking rather than critiquing his source. Fabulous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) Quote the eu can't keep the uk% of trade deals, it has to redo the lot.... That is true in itself but isn't what you said earlier. We however can't then use that percentage they also can't use* (ie what was 'ours') until our renegotiation with WTO. Meanwhile they can continue using their WTO percentage until renegotiation. That renegotiation is therefore under WTO, not as you have just claimed. *in the event of no deal Edited November 20, 2018 by ballaughbiker in the event of no deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Quote "Audience member at CBI pleads May not to sign the deal and says don’t listen to CBI voice of ‘european industry’ " Ho ho but complete BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 3 hours ago, ballaughbiker said: He/she is just on a wind up mission. Jesus wept, got there in the end. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) Said it many times before colombe so can you get your Jesus to standby with the tears. Edited November 20, 2018 by ballaughbiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 I'm struggling a bit on this one. I thought capt mainwaring portrayed the archetypal English officer buffoon, offering nothing of substance bar an inherent desire to be a leader of men and typified by those around him thinking he was an idiot. That miserable Scottish bastard was my favourite, though I wouldn't go as far as to say I admired him. https://dailym.ai/2QctHjq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Let us not forget that the UK is not just an importer for feeding our faces but also foodstuffs as ingredients for food processing and manufacturing for export.. Also, much is imported into the EU for processing and manufacturing and export to the UK as products so that we have nice dinners. The big picture is very big indeed. Here is just one example of my personal experience which I did as a shipbroker for commodity giant Louis Dreyfus Corp:- Cotton seed cakes from Tanzania to three ports Denmark...This plus the bran from groundnuts...The shells of groundnuts (Rich in protein)..soya, barley, maize, millet, sorghum etc...All from different countries gets made up into animal feeds and fed to Danish bacon pigs also for hens for eggs and meat too. The product comes over from Esbjerg in Denmark and last I looked came to Harwich in Essex on trailers bit like on Ben My Chree trips. So your Danish bacon and Lurpak actually originates in several different non-EU countries but becomes an EU product in the Customs Union and Single market..Just one example. The percentages quoted here are small but they are small percentages of an enormous amount. Now I was active in shipbroking during the transition from the days of Commonwealth preference agreements to the impact of the Common Ag Policy...Preference was given to food from the protected Common Market/EC/EEC now EU and gradually we no longer had so much trade with our former partners...The EU protects and artificially manipulates the situation so that now we are subject to a vast amount of Just in Time short overnight trade. This is the issue...Also, due to the EEC dependency etc the UK no longer has a huge deep sea merchant navy...In my time beginning in 1970 about 100 British shipping companies have closed down or sold their ships. All that remains are posters showing their funnel emblems. We have to pay for our sea trade and imports mainly in US Dollars and I suppose Euros but mainly Dollars as we have to use the fleets of other nations. The Pound falls against the Dollar and so prices rise and you pay. In the interim traders play the currency and commodity markets, futures derivitives etc. There is a lot more to it than many realise as so few understand how seaborne trade works and who calls the shots! Oh, and what I said about Denmark also applies to Ireland and its exports to the UK and of course UK producers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 David Davis twittering from the States here. Very funny replies! What a biff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Barrie Stevens said: Now I was active in shipbroking during the transition from the days of Commonwealth preference agreements to the impact of the Common Ag Policy...Preference was given to food from the protected Common Market/EC/EEC now EU and gradually we no longer had so much trade with our former partners...The EU protects and artificially manipulates the situation so that now we are subject to a vast amount of Just in Time short overnight trade. This is the issue.. Do come off it Bazza. JIT is all about taking advantage of fast, reliable trade routes to greatly reduce inventory and therefore sell a better, fresher food product which all adds to the bottom line. The UK imports a very large amount of fresh EU produce. With no trade barriers and the Chunnel we can effectively have our own Rungis in the UK. Nothing whatever to do with "artificially manipulating" the situation - whatever that means. I once accidentally drove into Rungis at about 2:00 am en route to Spain. They charged me to get in and it took me bloody ages to get out again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 PK. I was there. I was part of it. I saw it change. The changes in our trade and sources brought about a vast amount of JIT sea trade as opposed to what we used to have...They did not say let us invent JIT. It came about naturally along with other developments such as the parts in car making etc. The short sea trade made it possible and now necessary. Try getting produce from New Zealand. Australia and British Columbia like we used to. In the same quantities. It is a very long way away..You have to think and plan a year ahead if not more. Little ships can pop around the EU ports taking overnight orders. It is a long way to Tipperary but even longer to Auckland. Our shops were piled high with butter, cheese, lamb, peaches, apples, sugar from the Commonwealth but we ditched them in favour of CAP foods and the cost of living rose dramatically when we joined the Common Market. I recall the rusting equipment in Auckland when the Common Market cut out the butter and cheese markets save for a little derogation for a few years. When did you last see heaps of Australian peaches and apples from British Columbia? Even Anchor butter is now made in the UK not New Zealand whereas I can recall their dedicated wharf right near London Bridge. The CAP caused us to be short sea traders because so much came from the CAP including domestic produce. So the pattern of trade changed. I saw the CAP bring about if not the end of certainly a diminution of New Zealand meat and dairy and sugar from the Commonwealth. So much sugar is now EU produced. Even Tate& Lyle is now American. And wants Brexit so it can again use cane sugar. The USA has a huge interest in cane sugar. A lot of rice is now EU produced. When I say "produce" I do not mean salad and such I also mean packaged and processed foods which is often done for the supermarkets as a result of overnight orders. Do you want it to say Tesco or Sainsbury's? Most of the UK orange juice is imported into Zeebrugge and packaged as you like it. That port is now assessing its position ref Brexit. We no longer have the fleet we used to have...I recall the great ships and the trade they did. We have a vast container trade but apart from being part of large consortia most of this is "foreign"...Not really "Ours" as I recall it. As I said, few realise. But I was part of it and saw it happen. Do you actually know how long it takes to get from Australia and New Zealand to the UK? Our trade became short sea very quickly because what is now the EU became our source. Imports from our former pals were phased out. I think the last British deep sea fleet was Hadley Shipping and closed about late 1980s..Maybe even 1986? Not sure now. Vestey Brothers brought meat in from all over and even had their own huge fleet of ships...All gone now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Hadley Shipping survived! Surprised to see Hadley Shipping still going and have an IOM presence...I recall the boss Peter Warwick on the Baltic Exchange and I thought the firm had closed down but it seems to have shrunk but survived. So we have one left at least! https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/11294705/Peter-Warwick-obituary.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Star_Line This link shows the sort maritime initiative the UK will have to emulate again if it wishes to go it alone post Brexit trading globally on WTO terms and engaging with all comers and market situations....Just as we used to do...In the meantime by way of damage limitation we look like having to stagger along on short sea trades keeping in line with whatever the EU throws at us... I recall going along the roads outside the London docks and seeing the various funnels and badges poking up above the walls...It is different now what with ferries and trailers and the Chunnel but I would say a big fleet or control of one is essential if you really want a hard Brexit and be "independent"... "again" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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