woody2 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 3 hours ago, ballaughbiker said: That is true in itself but isn't what you said earlier. We however can't then use that percentage they also can't use* (ie what was 'ours') until our renegotiation with WTO. Meanwhile they can continue using their WTO percentage until renegotiation. That renegotiation is therefore under WTO, not as you have just claimed. *in the event of no deal wrong....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 26 minutes ago, Barrie Stevens said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Star_Line This link shows the sort maritime initiative the UK will have to emulate again if it wishes to go it alone post Brexit trading globally on WTO terms and engaging with all comers and market situations....Just as we used to do...In the meantime by way of damage limitation we look like having to stagger along on short sea trades keeping in line with whatever the EU throws at us... I recall going along the roads outside the London docks and seeing the various funnels and badges poking up above the walls...It is different now what with ferries and trailers and the Chunnel but I would say a big fleet or control of one is essential if you really want a hard Brexit and be "independent"... "again" sir bazza the eu isn't going to stop selling to the uk...... 16-18% of eu exports go to the uk..... the eu is in a mess with near zero growth (0.2%)........ once the ecb turn the cash tap off and increase interest rates the uk should be as far away as possible..... don't forget that joining what is now the eu put the uk into recession for most of the 70's..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 3 hours ago, the stinking enigma said: I'm struggling a bit on this one. I thought capt mainwaring portrayed the archetypal English officer buffoon, offering nothing of substance bar an inherent desire to be a leader of men and typified by those around him thinking he was an idiot. That miserable Scottish bastard was my favourite, though I wouldn't go as far as to say I admired him. https://dailym.ai/2QctHjq you shouldn't be up to this at your age....... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-46280249 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Barrie Stevens said: PK. I was there. I was part of it. I saw it change. The changes in our trade and sources brought about a vast amount of JIT sea trade as opposed to what we used to have...They did not say let us invent JIT. It came about naturally along with other developments such as the parts in car making etc. The short sea trade made it possible and now necessary. Try getting produce from New Zealand. Australia and British Columbia like we used to. In the same quantities. It is a very long way away..You have to think and plan a year ahead if not more. Little ships can pop around the EU ports taking overnight orders. It is a long way to Tipperary but even longer to Auckland. Our shops were piled high with butter, cheese, lamb, peaches, apples, sugar from the Commonwealth but we ditched them in favour of CAP foods and the cost of living rose dramatically when we joined the Common Market. I recall the rusting equipment in Auckland when the Common Market cut out the butter and cheese markets save for a little derogation for a few years. When did you last see heaps of Australian peaches and apples from British Columbia? Even Anchor butter is now made in the UK not New Zealand whereas I can recall their dedicated wharf right near London Bridge. The CAP caused us to be short sea traders because so much came from the CAP including domestic produce. So the pattern of trade changed. I saw the CAP bring about if not the end of certainly a diminution of New Zealand meat and dairy and sugar from the Commonwealth. So much sugar is now EU produced. Even Tate& Lyle is now American. And wants Brexit so it can again use cane sugar. The USA has a huge interest in cane sugar. A lot of rice is now EU produced. When I say "produce" I do not mean salad and such I also mean packaged and processed foods which is often done for the supermarkets as a result of overnight orders. Do you want it to say Tesco or Sainsbury's? Most of the UK orange juice is imported into Zeebrugge and packaged as you like it. That port is now assessing its position ref Brexit. We no longer have the fleet we used to have...I recall the great ships and the trade they did. We have a vast container trade but apart from being part of large consortia most of this is "foreign"...Not really "Ours" as I recall it. As I said, few realise. But I was part of it and saw it happen. Do you actually know how long it takes to get from Australia and New Zealand to the UK? Our trade became short sea very quickly because what is now the EU became our source. Imports from our former pals were phased out. I think the last British deep sea fleet was Hadley Shipping and closed about late 1980s..Maybe even 1986? Not sure now. Vestey Brothers brought meat in from all over and even had their own huge fleet of ships...All gone now! Errrr Barrie you are just reinforcing the point I made i.e. you can't have JIT with long sea voyages.. Hence we only import about 1% of our food from Australasia. Personally who wouldn't prefer fresh produce to frozen and shipped for weeks anyway? Did the cost of living dramatically rise on the UK entry? I don't remember it like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, P.K. said: Errrr Barrie you are just reinforcing the point I made i.e. you can't have JIT with long sea voyages.. Hence we only import about 1% of our food from Australasia. Personally who wouldn't prefer fresh produce to frozen and shipped for weeks anyway? Did the cost of living dramatically rise on the UK entry? I don't remember it like that. the uk went into recession...... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- i did look in the cupboard a few weeks ago and couldn't find anything made in the eu...... a few things say packaged in the eu but not from the eu...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) Quote don't forget that joining what is now the eu put the uk into recession for most of the 70's..... Wrong. The UK went into recession in the mid 70s due to the miner's strike and oil crisis neither of which were down to the EEC. Edited November 20, 2018 by ballaughbiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Quote i did look in the cupboard a few weeks ago and couldn't find anything made in the eu...... What cupboard? The one under the stairs? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Made in Europe We're in at #22. True, most of these wouldn't fit under woody's stairs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: The UK went into recession in the mid 70s due to the miner's strike and oil crisis neither of which were down to the EEC. mid????????????????????????????????????/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: What cupboard? The one under the stairs? kitchen you dumbo...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) Kitchen? Oh that makes all the difference You need to work on your put downs too. I've lost count of the number of people you've called dumbo. Even JIT stuff where much of the components are from the EU but assembled in say, Swindon, won't say 'made in the EU' will they? Still if there's no deal Honda won't stay in Swindon and all Easyjet aircraft will probably be OE registered anyway. Do you think that is a result? Quote mid????????????????????????????????????/ Oil crisis Oct 73 Miners Strike Jan 1974 Edited November 20, 2018 by ballaughbiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 25 minutes ago, P.K. said: Errrr Barrie you are just reinforcing the point I made i.e. you can't have JIT with long sea voyages.. Hence we only import about 1% of our food from Australasia. Personally who wouldn't prefer fresh produce to frozen and shipped for weeks anyway? Did the cost of living dramatically rise on the UK entry? I don't remember it like that. Oh well. It is about markets. Never mind. The use of short sea trips came about as we got more physical trade with the Common Market and the long haul became redundant. This coincided with JIT but even before the Common Market a lot of stuff came from Holland and Spain and Poland and of course Channel Islands. We did not say "Fresher from over the Channel".. We said, sorry Commonwealth we joined the Common Market all bets are off. Find new markets (They did) Of course air freight for perishable goods adds another dimension. Yes prices shot up but part of the cause was decimalisation. This seemed to cover up the price increases. We still thought in terms of 240 pennies to the Pound and then things were priced in smaller numbers of pennies or so it seemed. Of course it was an illusion. No one said, scrap the big ships we have just invented JIT...The big ships were not needed because the Common Market shut out or restricted their trade. As we evolved so the concept of getting things just in time came about but the shorter distance required led to smaller ships, short haul and as we got used to that JIT came about as a general industrial development started in the USA. I recall the BBC and its "In Business" and other shows preaching JIT in the late 1980s. So much is now processed and packaged in the EU and in reality Packaged in the EU makes it an EU product just as countries like Israel have or had a deal whereas a certain percentage of processing in Israel and finishing in the EU made it an EU product. I think poultry from Thailand has a similar arrangement. Salad etc apart we had very good fresh and frozen stuff from around the world but gave preference to the Commonwealth and its ilk. Way back in the 1950s and 60s I saw apples piles of 'em from Oregon and British Columbia, peaches from Australia, pineapples from Aussie, plus meat, dairy, wool of course. Ditto New Zealand. Ditto South African fruits ie Cape Apples. We also had Chinese gooseberries from New Zealand now known as Kiwi fruit...We had grapes from afar. Beef from now Zimbabawe and tobacco also. The change now is that our stuff comes in short trips processed and packed in the EU. I mean some may even go from the UK to the Continent to be processed and packed and then brought back again. Today we have very fast container ships with refrigerated capacity and also chill capacity. Their earlier cousins brought us all the fresh and frozen stuff from afar...Hence the items listed above. I have been on Swedish flag Israeli owned fruit carriers and chartered them and could not believe the service speed on the charter party said 38 knots! This was about the speed of a Royal Navy anti-sub frigate at the time. These ships can bring in stuff from afar but I do not mean salads and soft fruits. The ferries evolved to serve the market and thus JIT was made possible and desirable but even before then the ships plied regular routes on schedule to the Commonwealth and all you needed was there on time and piled high and cheap. JIT was adopted for food just as it evolved for industrial parts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 40 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: Oil crisis Oct 73 Miners Strike Jan 1974 not mid then- same time the uk joined....... 40 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: Kitchen? Oh that makes all the difference You need to work on your put downs too. I've lost count of the number of people you've called dumbo. Even JIT stuff where much of the components are from the EU but assembled in say, Swindon, won't say 'made in the EU' will they? Still if there's no deal Honda won't stay in Swindon and all Easyjet aircraft will probably be OE registered anyway. Do you think that is a result? eu (food regs)requires which country its been made in...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 14 minutes ago, woody2 said: not mid then- same time the uk joined....... eu (food regs)requires which country its been made in...... I think you'll find it's which country it's been grown in.... Dear me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 16 hours ago, ballaughbiker said: Made in Europe We're in at #22. True, most of these wouldn't fit under woody's stairs.... And from that list; GSK have stated how much brexit will potentially cost them albeit they believe that there will be no material difference to their business. AstraZeneca have also expressed significant concerns about Brexit. In fairness Ineos seem to be fairly positive about Brexit whilst acknowledging there will be challenges. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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