quilp Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 And no racists in the Remain camp. No. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 10 minutes ago, woolley said: Usual stuff. People who voted for Brexit are not racists. They are patriots who believe in their country running itself. They see the blind alley that is the EU. The blind alley that was supposed to be Utopia. It's happening all over Europe, and it's well overdue. Not everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist. But everyone who is a racist voted for Brexit.... You can't ignore the salient facts that the mendacious self-serving trio of Farage, Gove and Johnson kicked off their "Leave" campaign with the totally ridiculous "£350 million" etc etc populist financial nonsense. Realising they were losing that argument they then played the racist card and with more than a little help from the likes of Aaron Banks they carried the day. By all means do whatever you can to pick holes in that particular piece of history... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, quilp said: And no racists in the Remain camp. No. You need to make your "damage limitation" a little less obvious. Just a thought.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, P.K. said: But everyone who is a racist voted for Brexit... Nonsense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 I have a friend who voted for Brexit and she's really racist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, P.K. said: Not everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist. But everyone who is a racist voted for Brexit.... You can't ignore the salient facts that the mendacious self-serving trio of Farage, Gove and Johnson kicked off their "Leave" campaign with the totally ridiculous "£350 million" etc etc populist financial nonsense. Realising they were losing that argument they then played the racist card and with more than a little help from the likes of Aaron Banks they carried the day. By all means do whatever you can to pick holes in that particular piece of history... Don't be silly. People have been waiting for over 40 years to cast their verdict on the EU. And now, despite 85% of them being returned on a Brexit manifesto, MPs are still determined to thwart it. That's democracy for you. Keep voting till you get the answer we like. They learned a lot from the EU. What a day of celebration it will be for Europe when the entire grubby edifice collapses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, woolley said: Don't be silly. People have been waiting for over 40 years to cast their verdict on the EU. And now, despite 85% of them being returned on a Brexit manifesto, MPs are still determined to thwart it. That's democracy for you. Keep voting till you get the answer we like. They learned a lot from the EU. What a day of celebration it will be for Europe when the entire grubby edifice collapses. No Joe Public hasn't been waiting 40 years bollox bollox bollox. What a totally ridiculous statement. Have you been drinking? The loony tunes like Rees-Mogg, Fysh, Fox, Redwood, Duncan Smith, Raab, Davis etc etc yes maybe. But probably not. And Joe Public? Not a chance. Until they were given a focal point for the woes of years of austerity by a bunch of self-serving chancers who saw an opportunity for personal gain by motivating the more susceptible in society to hopefully carry them forward to achieve their personal goals. The lessons of history are full of scenarios just like this one. A common theme is they never end well..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, P.K. said: The lessons of history are full of scenarios just like this one. Just like this one? As situations go it's pretty unique in its scope. Can you provide an example from the "lessons of history" for comparison? It would help to see where you're coming from. Thanks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 hour ago, P.K. said: The loony tunes like Rees-Mogg, Fysh, Fox, Redwood, Duncan Smith, Raab, Davis etc etc yes maybe. Don’t forget these fruitcake throwbacks to the seventies: Stringer, Hoey, Hopkins, Godsiff, Field, Campbell, Cryer, Mitchell, Mann, Skinner, Stuart, McCluskey and Galloway - or Corbyn, Abbott er al, ‘campaigning with the handbrake on’ and now sitting on their hands, with no plan, probably waiting until March 28th to call for a people’s vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, woolley said: There is absolutely nothing about Brexit that equates to vassalage. Art. 185 states a Northern Ireland Protocol ‘shall apply as from the end of the transition period’. Once the Protocol is in force, the UK cannot leave it except by ‘joint’ decision of the UK and the EU. This gives the EU a right of veto over the the U.K. ever leaving the customs union. The U.K. will have no decision-making power in the customs union, or in external trade policy. Trade deals will be made with no consideration for British interests at all. Annex 2 Art. 3(4) states that the UK shall be ‘informed’ of any decision by the EU to amend the Common Customs Tariff ‘in sufficient time for it to align itself with that decision’. Any change to laws within the CU will just have to be accepted - even those that regulate the lucrative U.K. services industry (ie, most of the economy). Now, of course, the U.K. might come up with a magic solution to the border it has in Ireland during the transition period. Or it might not. There’s no deadline for the transition either, so who knows, one day the U.K. might persuade the EU to agree to a deal a bit less embarrassing, but it will be at the discretion of the EU, and it would be very hard to find a better deal for the EU than tariff free access for EU and EU FTA country goods, complete say over rules and standards and complete control over the tariffs on non EU goods. That is vassalage. That is also the best deal available. Way to take back control, dude! A market of 66 million is never going to dictate terms to what is now the biggest single market on the planet. How sad and pitiful that the U.K. would rather be a rule taker than be at the heart of the decision making process. Edited December 13, 2018 by Freggyragh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Vassalage. The details above illustrate my own comments that the UK will be as the IOM of the EU because it is rather similar to the IOM relationship with the UK as the metropolitan power. ie The IOM can do what it likes just as long as it does what it is told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 9 hours ago, quilp said: Just like this one? As situations go it's pretty unique in its scope. Can you provide an example from the "lessons of history" for comparison? It would help to see where you're coming from. Thanks... For you? You're having a laugh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Because you can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Ian Duncan Smith this morning. "If the EU want a deal they'd better damned well step up to the plate" Er....these people are utterly delusional. The EU have their deal. It's UK and May that have had to go running back to Brussels with their tail between their legs. To try and renegotiate what they said was the "best and only deal". I can see May being told to piss off, perhaps bar some minor concessions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 7 hours ago, Freggyragh said: Art. 185 states a Northern Ireland Protocol ‘shall apply as from the end of the transition period’. Once the Protocol is in force, the UK cannot leave it except by ‘joint’ decision of the UK and the EU. This gives the EU a right of veto over the the U.K. ever leaving the customs union. The U.K. will have no decision-making power in the customs union, or in external trade policy. Trade deals will be made with no consideration for British interests at all. Annex 2 Art. 3(4) states that the UK shall be ‘informed’ of any decision by the EU to amend the Common Customs Tariff ‘in sufficient time for it to align itself with that decision’. Any change to laws within the CU will just have to be accepted - even those that regulate the lucrative U.K. services industry (ie, most of the economy). Now, of course, the U.K. might come up with a magic solution to the border it has in Ireland during the transition period. Or it might not. There’s no deadline for the transition either, so who knows, one day the U.K. might persuade the EU to agree to a deal a bit less embarrassing, but it will be at the discretion of the EU, and it would be very hard to find a better deal for the EU than tariff free access for EU and EU FTA country goods, complete say over rules and standards and complete control over the tariffs on non EU goods. That is vassalage. That is also the best deal available. Way to take back control, dude! A market of 66 million is never going to dictate terms to what is now the biggest single market on the planet. How sad and pitiful that the U.K. would rather be a rule taker than be at the heart of the decision making process. Trying the large font makes it more convincing route? No. This is not vassalage at all. It is a temporary measure of expediency. The idiots in Parliament at both extremes have jumped on the vassalage bandwagon. They had probably never heard the word before last week and had to Google it. Face it. The few on the right want their own form of Brexit, and the rest want to scupper the referendum result altogether for their own reasons - staying in the EU. The protocol is temporary. Neither side has any interest in it being permanent, least of all the EU, since it gives UK businesses access to the single market without any budget contributions. How long do you think they would be prepared to tolerate that? Already continental businesses have raised eyebrows at it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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