ballaughbiker Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Quote That's democracy for you. Keep voting till you get the answer we like. Perhaps not voting again is anything but democracy. What are you saying? The "will of the people" precludes and updated "will of the people"? Surely the right to vote, and continue voting when circumstances change is one of the definitions of democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: Perhaps not voting again is anything but democracy. What are you saying? The "will of the people" precludes and updated "will of the people"? Surely the right to vote, and continue voting when circumstances change is one of the definitions of democracy. Condition/frighten the shit out of them a bit more with falsehood and get them to vote again. If unsuccessful rinse and repeat. Tried and tested EU procedure. If they still can't get the right result they ignore it and plow on anyway. Ever closer union to be built, don't you know. This is not a benign trading bloc. It is a nascent pan-continental state if they can get away with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 12 hours ago, woolley said: So this means that the French are killing their own people to get the protests shut down? Things must be even worse than I thought. I remember the UK did a very good job doing this in Derry...We do it better...Bloody Sunday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) woolley -You sound like Haw Haw Y'know the one that really frightened the shit out of people with falsehood. You can't really weaponise future predictions from a multitude of experts by coming out with the mutha of unverifiable future predictions "Ever closer union to be built, don't you know. This is not a benign trading bloc. It is a nascent pan-continental state if they can get away with it." Even if were accepted that it was partly true, surely we have more chance of controlling your monster from the inside pissing out? Edited December 13, 2018 by ballaughbiker add woolley and insert correct quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) Remember Haw Haw and his frightening the shit out of people with falsehood. Edited December 13, 2018 by ballaughbiker 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: woolley -You sound like Haw Haw Y'know the one that really frightened the shit out of people with falsehood. You can't really weaponise future predictions from a multitude of experts by coming out with the mutha of unverifiable future predictions "That's democracy for you. Keep voting till you get the answer we like." Even if were accepted that it was partly true, surely we have more chance of controlling your monster from the inside pissing out? "Keep voting until you get it right." isn't an unverifiable prediction. Surely they have form in this. All on record as they forced through treaty after treaty. As for the rest, of course none of us have a crystal ball. We can only survey and forecast based on past history and the way things appear to be heading. Controlling the monster from inside? After it's eaten you but before it's digested you, perhaps? I think this is the Pongo model but it seems disingenuous to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) C'mon woolley. We ALL know MUCH more that at the referedumb date. Having another vote that benefits from this is hardly "keep voting until you get it right". Of course, if the snake oil salesmen are correct, what's the risk to you and your brethren? You'll win again surely? If not, then it must be "quick, quick get this decision over the line before they find out any more that questions its wisdom" Edited December 13, 2018 by ballaughbiker spelling 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Ian Duncan Smith married into aristocracy and lives in a Tudor house on a huge estate in I think Buckinghamshire..Not like us serfs/vassals..Not the real world. He can afford to indulge in Brexit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Substitute 'pantomime toff' and 'Somerset' and the same applies. In fact more so being a disaster capitalist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 4 hours ago, quilp said: Because you can't. That's as stupid as trying to promote on MF well known racist and islamaphobe Pat Condell. I guess the latest lot to be completely taken in by a bunch of mendacious politicians with their VERY false promises has to be the Italians. I'm not going to bother with the details but basically like our lying brexiteers they promised mass deportations of Johnny Foreigner, more money on public services, more money to lift the living standards of the poor and unemployed, reducing the retirement age etc etc. All completely unworkable and unaffordable but they got elected anyway. Needless to say their very first budget smacked into the Reality Buffers of the EU and the threat of sanctions. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/13/italy-cuts-deficit-target-for-2019-to-204-to-avoid-eu-sanctions It's not going to end well for the Italians and it's probably a bigger threat to the EU than Brexit. It's a little bit strange to me. With the passage of information being so much easier these days you would think an electorate would be harder and harder to fool. I can understand the brexiteers being taken in by the lies of Farage, Gove and Johnson because the UK right wing press, which is to say pretty much all of it, supported them and didn't point out what a load of bollox they were spouting. Quite the reverse in fact as they often latched onto the lies and built on them. I guess if you want to believe it and you're that sort of person you wont pay heed to anything that might burst your little bubble... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 What is this big bogeyman that people fear ? What is this pan-continental state that's going to swallow us up ? I just don't buy it. It's bogus scaremongering to frighten the stupid. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, P.K. said: It's a little bit strange to me. With the passage of information being so much easier these days you would think an electorate would be harder and harder to fool. I can understand the brexiteers being taken in by the lies of Farage, Gove and Johnson because the UK right wing press, which is to say pretty much all of it, supported them and didn't point out what a load of bollox they were spouting. Quite the reverse in fact as they often latched onto the lies and built on them. The availability of information is not the problem. The problem is the fact that people no longer critically think about the information that they are presented with and do not consider the source, how much evidence is available to support it and whether it should be trusted or not. Take a look how quickly people share memes which look/sound cool but have no real basis in truth or factual accuracy. To quote someone, maybe Mark Twain, "a lie can travel can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Also the truth can be very boring and uninspiring just like the huge benefits we enjoy through common regulation (AKA red tape by those who are already yawning) Emotional and exciting talk about patriotism using stupidly simplistic phrases like "taking back control / invasion /ordering us / WTO/ they need us more than we need them, brexit means brexit etc etc etc" I personally think the EU needs huge reform and there is plenty to not like but to leave like many want is lunacy. There will be hardcore views on both sides of the fulcrum that will never change but I reckon the see-saw has gone the other way now. A second and final vote is the only way to find out. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 50 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said: What is this big bogeyman that people fear ? What is this pan-continental state that's going to swallow us up ? I just don't buy it. It's bogus scaremongering to frighten the stupid. If it was just a free trade area that would be fine, but it isn't. Maastricht was where it all started to go wrong and the real nature of the project became apparent to the public at large. It has gone downhill from there. I normally respect your views SMUJ, but the scaremongering has all been on the pro-EU side. Planes won't fly, trains won't run, we won't be able to trade. All total nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) I wonder how much of it has anything to do with the EU Anti Tax Avoidance Directive, due to kick in in January 2019 Jacob...? A couple of years ago I was watching a programme on the History Channel. Some papers had come to light that were WW2 Nazi Gemany's assessment of the UK of the time (apparently, before jackbooting across the borders they actually used to raise a socio-economic assessment of who they were about to invade, and the assessment of the UK had recently been unearthed, which formed part of the documentary). The Nazis (of all people) had Britain down as one of the most corrupt, unfair and unequal societies that they'd yet encountered. Some people would seemingly like to ensure it continues to stay that way. Edited December 13, 2018 by Non-Believer 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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