P.K. Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Just now, woolley said: If it was just a free trade area that would be fine, but it isn't. Maastricht was where it all started to go wrong and the real nature of the project became apparent to the public at large. It has gone downhill from there. I normally respect your views SMUJ, but the scaremongering has all been on the pro-EU side. Planes won't fly, trains won't run, we won't be able to trade. All total nonsense. I believe Maastricht is where it all went right. I should imagine the negotiating team left for home scarcely believing the outcome. Full membership and keeping the £. The best of ALL worlds. Now about this "project" - what, in your opinion, is so terrible about the EU? Forget about The Evil Goblins intent on world domination. I actually made that bit up. There are enough etc etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 14 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: The Nazis (of all people) had Britain down as one of the most corrupt, unfair and unequal societies that they'd yet encountered. Priceless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, P.K. said: Full membership and keeping the £. The best of ALL worlds. All about strategy, PK. These derogations were all seen as temporary obstacles on the way to uniformity. A bit like playing on the sand before realising the rising tide had surrounded you and cut you off. Slowly, slowly, catchy continent. Edited December 13, 2018 by woolley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Just now, woolley said: All about strategy, PK. These things were all seen as temporary obstacles on the way to uniformity. A bit like playing on the sand before realising the rising tide had surrounded you and cut you off. Slowly, slowly, catchy continent. Nothing wrong with safety in numbers and with a resurgent Russia, well.... The thing is folks have to apply, they're not forced to join. So again what's not to like about strategy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Quote Planes won't fly, trains won't run, we won't be able to trade. All total nonsense. Of course it's nonsense (although not total) but it's best to find out who said it, exactly what they said and why. Our planes will not be operated with the same ease in and out of the EU if there's no deal. That's one reason why easyJet are changing their UK fleet from G to OE reg. That will cost a big lot and won't be done on a whim or based of a completely false story. Despite being long retired, I have an ATPL licence that would not have otherwise operated in the exactly same way post brexit. The CAA (but not BALPA) has said it will probably be ok, depending (whatever that means in reality) but automatic acceptance throughout the 27 +3 on EU registered aircraft will be gone. Now.... if you want (read have a need) to bull up this particular snag up so joe public will be guaranteed to laugh at it in disbelief you say something like (Haw Haw mode on) "D y'know what..... they are saying now that planes won't be able fly after brexit"and then add something even more stupid like "it will be plagues of black locusts next" followed by a ho ho ho. It's his allegation that's actually false but nobody ever questions it before he quickly moves on the next object of derision. He knows that and it's now a very honed technique. If he ever does get someone smart on his phone-in who does know their subject, they won't get a chance to show him up for the absolute charlatan that he is. He's not that daft and is in total control of the fader. He knows his disciples (who seem to have a need to have a convenient scapegoat for every ill) will lap this type of falsehood up unquestioned and tell all their mates down the pub who will all also laugh saying Haw Haw is a great bloke who should be pm and they'd buy him a pint if he walked in the door. The reality is lost forever as it's boring and Haw Haw knows joe public will likely know nothing of the detail and the hyperbolic version will be "halfway around the world before the truth get's its shoes on". It's a very effective technique and Haw Haw's clever skill is made up of 1)telling a story like it isn't with loads of exaggeration and hyperbole and 2) Cleverly linking all our ills to EU membership with the inference that if only we could just leave all will be brilliant and that we will 'retake' our righful place in the world*. It's very beguiling. People hear what he and his amigos have said and then come on here with statements like 'planes won't fly, trains won't run' etc wallowing in the ridicule of the moment. Haw Haw and his followers never have to sort the issues and deal with them day to day, of course, so his job is done. * I just hope our new "rightful place" won't be beneath its present position in the pecking order if we crash out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 I often listen to Farage on LBC and he seems to be losing it a bit lately. I thought Lord Snooty did too in the immediate wake of the confidence vote last night. They see a hard Brexit slipping away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 hours ago, ballaughbiker said: I just hope our new "rightful place" won't be beneath its present position in the pecking order if we crash out. We're currently giving the EU and the rest of the world all the evidence they need to put the UK where they want in the pecking order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 8 hours ago, woolley said: "Keep voting until you get it right." isn't an unverifiable prediction. Surely they have form in this. All on record as they forced through treaty after treaty. Wrong. The Treaty of Nice was rejected by the Irish in a referendum and the EU came back with an amendment saying that any European collective defence policy would need unanimous approval. The Lisbon Treaty was rejected by the Irish in a referendum so the EU allowed Ireland and the U.K. to opt out of Schengen and put in a clause about Irish involvement in collective defence requiring approval by the UN Security Council, Irish Government and Dáil Éireann. ‘Keep amending your treaties till you get it right’ is what the Irish electorate told the EU and the EU complied. The U.K. chose to leave such discussions to its politicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) . Edited December 13, 2018 by Freggyragh Duplicate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/13/daniel-hannan-mep-group-told-to-repay-half-a-million-in-eu-funds Edited December 13, 2018 by Freggyragh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) . Edited December 13, 2018 by Freggyragh Duplicate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) . Edited December 13, 2018 by Freggyragh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) . Edited December 13, 2018 by Freggyragh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 3 hours ago, Shake me up Judy said: I often listen to Farage on LBC and he seems to be losing it a bit lately. I thought Lord Snooty did too in the immediate wake of the confidence vote last night. They see a hard Brexit slipping away. Thank fuck for that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 14 hours ago, woolley said: ...but the scaremongering has all been on the pro-EU side. Ahem...*cough* 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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